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Thread: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by jfuh View Post
    Are you seriously comparing the two?
    Both scenarios represent a supposed misrepresentation of the facts in order to push an agenda, so, yes, I'm SERIOUSLY comparing the two. You're hypocrisy is showing.

    Because I've little trouble proving of intentional lie by the Bush admin on Iraq and WMD intel.
    You can prove that Bush et. al. knew the intel was false? You should send your proof to the Obama Justice Department, that way they can begin criminal prosecution immediately...

    Not to mention the fact that it's not like we found 1 or 2 nukes in Iraq, we found absolutely zilch.
    Non-sequitur.

    As for 47million figure, I don't think that the Obama admin was the first to use that figure nor for that matter the variation between 47 and 37 is immaterial
    It's only immaterial to hypocritical, partisan hacks.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    What? No, my reasoning is that the census report likely underestimates the number of illegal immigrants in this country, as I clearly stated.
    Exactly what I've been saying, illegal immigrants are not represented in significant numbers in the census report. The census report's purpose was not to determine how many illegal aliens there are in the U.S. There are no sub categorys of 'illegals' in any breakout of any subject in any census report.

    Others did do just that and now you're trying to fit their results into the census report. A square peg in a round hole. It don't fit.

    If you're a part of an illegal, underground society and trying to avoid authorities as much as possible, you're not exactly going to be banging on a government door asking for forms so that you can supply detailed information about yourself to those same authorities.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    Really, it comes down to this: When Obama says "there are 47 million uninsured Americans," you're claiming that what he's actually saying and what people are actually hearing is "there are 47 million uninsured people in this country, and that number includes non-citizens such as illegal immigrants, but they're all considered Americans by all of us anyways."
    Not anymore than when they hear someone refer to our population as 300 million Americans.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Exactly what I've been saying, illegal immigrants are not represented in significant numbers in the census report. The census report's purpose was not to determine how many illegal aliens there are in the U.S. There are no sub categorys of 'illegals' in any breakout of any subject in any census report.

    Others did do just that and now you're trying to fit their results into the census report. A square peg in a round hole. It don't fit.

    If you're a part of an illegal, underground society and trying to avoid authorities as much as possible, you're not exactly going to be banging on a government door asking for forms so that you can supply detailed information about yourself to those same authorities.
    I still don't understand what you think you're proving. You acknowledge that there are at least 7m illegal immigrants without health insurance, correct?

    Not anymore than when they hear someone refer to our population as 300 million Americans.
    So you think it's okay if politicians lie, so long as they do so using colloquial terms that the average person is stupid enough to misunderstand.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #114
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    I still don't understand what you think you're proving. You acknowledge that there are at least 7m illegal immigrants without health insurance, correct?
    Never said that they weren't, just that they aren't in the census reports that people get the 45-47 million uninsured number from.

    I also note that while trying to incorporate one study into another, the number of 'non-citizen' uninsured increases while the total uninsured remains the same...
    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    If it specifically denies illegal aliens, how will 20 some million of the 47 million people without insurance that Obama keeps saying "will be covered by this bill" get insurance?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    That's another fact that the Libbos seem to leave off. Of the 47 million without insurance, 21 million are uninsured voluntarily and 15 million are illegal aliens.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    If they're not going to cover illegals, then why are illegals counted as a part of the 47 million uninsured persons in the country? I smell amnisty.
    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    Obama claims that it is a "moral imperative" that we offer medical coverage to the 47 million uninsured in this country.

    Since that number includes anywhere from 10 - 20 million illegal immigrants,how does he plan on doing that without offering coverage to a very sizable portion of the uninsured, illegal immigrants?
    This one specifically.
    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    Do you have any proof that the 47 million uninsured don't actually count between 10 - 20 million illegal immingants?
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    Of the 47 million people in the US without insurance, 10-12 million are illegals...
    Quote Originally Posted by buck
    This guy offers a fairly similar breakdown. His illegal count is lower, but really it's just an estimate. I do happen to think his his estimate is lower than it should be. Most of the other estimates I've seen are anywhere from 10 - 20 mil.

    Note that a couple of articles - articles that a lot of people trying to minimize the 47 million uninsured number refer back to - don't even try to infer that the census report include illegals.

    From the CNS article:
    But this number, according to the Census Bureau, included 9.73 million foreigners
    From the Julia A. Seymour article:
    A closer look at that report reveals the Census data include 9.487 million people who are “not a citizen.” Subtracting the 10 million non-Americans, the number of uninsured Americans falls to roughly 37 million.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Never said that they weren't, just that they aren't in the census reports that people get the 45-47 million uninsured number from.

    I also note that while trying to incorporate one study into another, the number of 'non-citizen' uninsured increases while the total uninsured remains the same...
    So let's say it's 7-10 million out of 47-50 million that are illegals. Does that materially change my point?

    Note that a couple of articles - articles that a lot of people trying to minimize the 47 million uninsured number refer back to - don't even try to infer that the census report include illegals.

    From the CNS article:

    From the Julia A. Seymour article
    So it's still only 37 million Americans. Which is what I said 40 posts ago.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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