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Ensign: I did nothing "legally" wrong

liblady said:
of course it's hypocritical. that's the very definition of hypocritical.......seeing things differently when you are in the same situation.

i personally don't care what people do in their private lives, but the clinton era changed the rules.
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Except its not the same.

Clinton: Had an affair on the job, in his work place, with a person who was a subordinant under him in his position as a government official, who was able to have the job due to the tax payers, and then lied about it under oath.

Ensign: Had an affair with a woman a subordinant on his private staff under him as a person not as a public official, and did not lie to it under oath.

You may find them both morally dispicable, but to say they're the same situation is absolutely incorrect.
 
Zyphlin said:
Except its not the same.

Clinton: Had an affair on the job, in his work place, with a person who was a subordinant under him in his position as a government official, who was able to have the job due to the tax payers, and then lied about it under oath.

Ensign: Had an affair with a woman a subordinant on his private staff under him as a person not as a public official, and did not lie to it under oath.

You may find them both morally dispicable, but to say they're the same situation is absolutely incorrect.
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Rationalization....nothing more, nothing less.

For Ensign to try to couch it in these terms just continues the hypocrisy that defines him.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So you hold this same opinion of Clinton?
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In terms of morality - absolutely. I find Clinton's personal morals to be on the level of a sewer rat.

In terms of hypocrisy - no. Clinton didn't preach a "holier than thou" attitude.

In terms of job performance - I find their personal sex life to be irrelevant completely in both cases.
 
disneydude said:
In terms of morality - absolutely. I find Clinton's personal morals to be on the level of a sewer rat.

In terms of hypocrisy - no. Clinton didn't preach a "holier than thou" attitude.

In terms of job performance - I find their personal sex life to be irrelevant completely in both cases.
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So his whole "is is" speach was not a holier than thow attitude?
 
disneydude;1058203523[I said:
Sen. John Ensign told The Associated Press on Wednesday that his affair with a friend's wife was a mistake but not as bad as former President Bill Clinton's relationship with a White House intern because he didn't lie about it under oath.

"I haven't done anything legally wrong," the Nevada Republican said.[/I]


This guy still just doesn't get it. It reminds me of all those Bush Apologists that always say to put ethics and morality aside "Technically" there was nothing illegal about _____________________ (submit any number of excuses here).
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The last time I looked, it wasn't a criminal offense to have an affair.

John Ensign is wrong however; it was nothing as bad as Clinton's lack of good judgment in that he was NOT boinking an EMPLOYEE who worked under him. Clinton just compounded his lack of good judgment by then lying after the fact about it.

But then, people like Kennedy, Edwards and Clinton are beyond the scrutiny of Liberals who are quick to shout moral outrage at the hypocrisy of Republicans, because at least people like Kennedy, Edwards and Clinton don't give a rat’s buttocks about good use of judgment, morals or morality.

I am always bemused by Liberals who post this less than relevant crapola on the forum in their desperate efforts to claim some form of high ground for their own who have historically shown no compulsion to withhold their egos and sex drives while in powerful office.

:rofl
 
PeteEU said:
Their own fault. Lefties don't go around preaching morality, right wingers do.
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Ah yes, the age old Liberal argument of hypocrisy; how ironic when one sees Liberals PREACHING about hypocrisy don't you think?

But let’s have some fun with this theory of yours which apparently goes like this; you would rather vote for someone lacking morals because at least he doesn’t preach about them than for someone who expresses morality and thinks having morals is a good thing but risks being a hypocrite for declaring his morality. Is that what you are saying?

Or is it that you find it, for reasons oddly beyond reasonable comprehension, reprehensible for leaders to express morals and their belief in conducting oneself in a moral fashion even at risk of being hypocrites themselves?

Even as hypocrites, their message is still right on target and it doesn’t take anything away from a message of morality. Imagine a world where no one cares about morality and where the leaders we elect can do just about anything they want as long as they give you public healthcare and take care of you from cradle to grave making you a dependent ward of the state.

That is a world we are heading in, and I have to say I am glad I will probably be long gone before it comes. I fear for my children however.


:rofl
 
disneydude said:
Rationalization....nothing more, nothing less.

For Ensign to try to couch it in these terms just continues the hypocrisy that defines him.
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Accept its really not.

MORALLY, yeah...they're pretty much the same. You won't find me arguing that. Cheating is Cheating is Cheating.

HOWEVER, situationally, they're not.

As I said already in this thread. If I'm a stock owner in a company and the CEO decides to go get busy with a mistress and it comes out publicly I'm likely a bit unhappy, it'll hurt the business a bit, but for the most part its just a morality thing.

HOWEVER

If instead that CEO is banging his secretary on the desk during work hours then as a stock holder I would have serious issues with that. Now its not just a moral issue, but he's manipulating his power to have sway over a subordinant and is essentially exploiting the companies funds for his own sexual enjoyment. I would be calling for his resignation in this case.

Is Ensign a hypcocrite? I won't argue about that. He is one for cheating while condeming Clinton's cheating.

Is he a hypocrite for calling for Clinton's resignation but not resigning himself? No, because he didn't call for Clinton's resignation because of simple immorality.

Are the situations exactly alike? Not in the least. There are numerous factors in the Clinton situation that are simply not present in the Ensign situation. Its like saying that a stupid teen who steals a $10 watch from walmart is the same as a accountant embezzling $10,000 dollars after a great deal of time planning it. Yeah, they both stole money, but to say they're the exact same situation would be ludicrous.
 
PeteEU said:
So you are saying that the "left" is the party for morality and family? That they go around preaching abstinence, no sex before marriage, no gay marriage as a core policy in their party program?
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OMG; lions and tigers and bears OH NO, lions and tigers and bears, OH NO! :rofl

By the way, the one about no gay marriage as being a core policy of the Republican Party is an outright lie. But then, you are no stranger to lying to support your warped political views are you?

PeteEU said:
And they attacked Bill Clinton for his blowjob while they themselves hunted under-age pages, got gay sex in airport bathrooms and hired prostitutes?
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There you go again, spewing more lies and distortions. Clinton was not attacked for his blowjob; he was correctly IMPEACHED for LYING under oath and having SEX with an INTERN who worked for him.

Had he run out and had an affair with Pelosi, and not lied under oath about it, no one would have given a rat's buttocks.

As far as gay sex in airports, well another vast LIE from you. He was accused of attempting to pick up an undercover officer in an airport restroom, which in itself if fought in a court of law would probably have been laughed out of the courtroom.

Hunting under age pages; well just another lie from you. But how about when Democrats have SEX with under age MALE pages? Well they go on to get RE-ELECTED and given a committee chairmanship.

Talk about lacking anything remotely close to good judgment, Democrat voters apparently have as poor judgment as the morons they elect.

:rofl

PeteEU said:
Is that the "left" you are talking about, that preaches all that as core values of their party?
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No, it is the LEFT that whines about it when it is a Republican but desperately defend it when it is their own; talk about a vast bunch of hypocrites; got irony? :rofl

PeteEU said:
Sorry but the American right is the poster boy for hypocrisy and double standard when it comes to "morality".. they are no better than the rest of us, but they attempt to project an aura that they are snow white and look down on the rest of us that are not and then they get caught in their own hypocrisy when they are caught with their pants down.
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My God, if ever there was a perfect definition for IRONIC, this is it.

Thanks Pete; aside from your propensity for posting lies and distortions, you are always an amusing poster child for what is WRONG with Liberals.
 
aps said:
I just wanted to add that what it is that pisses me off so much is this "I did something wrong, but someone else did something worse than I did" crap.

He had sex with a married woman and then had his parents attempt to pay her and her husband off. Yeah, he's a real stand-up guy, isn't he? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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But this kind of crap is what we hear daily from Liberal Democrats when they desperately defend their massive deficits yet claim Bush did it too. Got irony? :rofl

I am always amused when Liberals rail about hypocrisy when they wallow in it daily.
 
celticlord said:
I don't mind a President with an active and freshly slicked willie.
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Why not re-write this and state that you don't mind a President who lacks in good judgment and has the behavior of a teenager.

I am amazed when people make this kind of nonsensical statement. A President who exercises such POOR judgment and commits acts that are more conducive to teenagers with raging hormones should rightly have his ass kicked out of office. Just as any CEO who acts in such a bizarre way should and would in private business.

But Clinton didn’t just use extremely poor judgment; he then attempted to LIE to the American people outright, cover it up and even lied about it under oath. Only after being caught in the lie did he then decide to come clean and apologize for it; another example of extremely poor judgment.

But alas, our Democrat friends on the other side of the aisle continue to this day to emotional, and without logical thought processes, defend the actions of this buffoon and rail against Republicans for being “human” simply because they rightly criticize such behavior.

:doh
 
aps said:
I understand what you're saying. While I think it's normal to compare situation X to situation Y, it tends to show a lack of remorse by the person who committed situation X. He could ahve apologized and moved on. Don't apologize and then say, "But someone else did something worse than I did." Come on. It's like a drunk driver who seriously injures a person and tells the family, "Hey, other drunk drivers have killed their victims."

Unquestionably what Clinton did was illegal (lying under oath).

I don't have any opinion right now on whether he should resign. I don't feel strongly either way.
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One has to stand on one's head with one hand in the air to even pretend this makes any logical sense. :roll:
 
PeteEU said:
To different things. Nice attempt to derail the thread.
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Irony is your middle name; you attempt to derail just about every thread you enter with your vast right Wing conspiracies and hypocrisy.

The only thing that surprises me here is that you didn't somehow link Bush to this affair. :rofl
 
Truth Detector said:
Why not re-write this and state that you don't mind a President who lacks in good judgment and has the behavior of a teenager.
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Get a grip. Clinton was not the first President with raging libido. Hell, Kennedy could barely keep his pants on and he had a wife who was legitimately hot.

He was dumb to play in the Oval Office, he was dumb to give Monica a set of pearls, she was dumb not to clean the dress afterwards, but it's not like he accidentally pushed the button and launched a bunch of nukes at Russia or something. I give him more grief for lying about it than for doing it, because that was the really dumb thing he did.
 
celticlord said:
Get a grip. .....but it's not like he accidentally pushed the button and launched a bunch of nukes at Russia or something.
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But he also perhaps cost the lives of 3,000 Americans through his dereliction to duty.

Lack of good judgment leads to many things that are perhaps not as obvious as launching nukes at Russia as your dramatic attempt to deflect the issue suggests, but it does lead to a loss of prestige and perhaps even the loss of countless lives.

The list of Clinton's failures is long; Somalia, Al Qaeda, Granada and Bosnia come to mind right off the top of my head; all examples of the use of POOR judgment.

Carry on. :2wave:
 
Truth Detector said:
But he also perhaps cost the lives of 3,000 Americans through his dereliction to duty.
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Unless you want to argue that he made those bad decisions while Monica was going down on him, that really isn't relevant to the discussion, now is it?

I'm happy to go on at length about the dumb things he did and the lives those dumb things cost--but getting his knob polished by Monica just isn't at the top of that list.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So his whole "is is" speach was not a holier than thow attitude?
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I would say no. It certainly, once again speaks to his ethics and morals, but I don't see how you could classify it as a "Holier than thou" attitude. If Clinton had been holding himself out as an example of virtue, perhaps, but I never saw that from him.
 
disneydude said:
In terms of hypocrisy - no. Clinton didn't preach a "holier than thou" attitude.
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In terms of sexual behavior -- no, he didn't. (And who wouldn't have laughed out loud if he tried?)

But on many, many other things, yes, he did.

And he WAS one who pledged "the most ethical Administration in history." Boinking the interns and then lying straight to the American people about it doesn't really fall under that, does it?

Yeah, legal. But he pledged "ethical." And not just, but "MOST ethical."

Then, of course, add in all the other stuff, including lying under oath . . .
 
celticlord said:
I give him more grief for lying about it than for doing it, because that was the really dumb thing he did.
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Agreed. Now should it have really come to that??? :doh

Absolutely not.

It was a partisan witch hunt from the beginning and a huge waste of taxpayer money.
 
Myself, being a Social Conservative, I want to see the Party as well as the voters reject this guy. If someone can't keep their marriage vows, can't keep their mitts of of a supposed friend's wife, and can then stand to show his face in public, I say he cannot be trusted with political power.
 
Middleground said:
Agreed. Now should it have really come to that??? :doh

Absolutely not.

It was a partisan witch hunt from the beginning and a huge waste of taxpayer money.
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Arguable.

So you're in favor of Professors sleeping with their students, bosses sleeping with their subordinates, doctors sleeping with their patients, lawyers diddling their clients? You think these are all accusations that the various agencies and boards overseeing these various things should not look into when its accused of happening?
 
Zyphlin said:
I hope his constituents vote him out. I'm conflicted on whether he should step down. There are slight differences to this and Clinton.

My issue with Clinton was not the affair, but the fact it was a subordinant. I consider this much like a CEO in a company using his position to sleep with secretary. Its professionally inappropriate and a conflict of interests. If a CEO of a company screws around with a mistress I think that's bad image wise for the company, but I wouldn't be calling for the CEO's resignation. If the CEO was banging away on his secretary during work hours in his office, then I would be.

Similarly, in Clinton's case, it was with a subordinant employee in his position as the President, in his office, during work hours. If he was just banging out Monica, the chick from Starbucks, I'd have been disappointed in our President but not calling out for resignation or investigation.

That bothered me, greatly. He's was getting a blowjob on Tax Payer dime.

I was going to say that was different than Ensign and thus I don't mind him not resigning, since the OP just said it was a friend of his wife. However, it appears it was a campaign staffer. This conflicts things for me a bit. In this case, it is a subordinate to him. However, it is one that is not under him in some form in his capacity as Senator. So that situation gets tricky.

But I guess that is me trying to explain why the Clinton thing is "different" in my eyes than some of the others that have happened. Its partially due to years of being in an organization where those at the top have a good bit of sway and power over those under them, either forcefully or just out of respect, and how important it has been ingrained in us that you do not take advantage of that. I don't care if he's dipping his Slick Willie into a warmer location (Seriously, look and listen to Hillary, its hard to blame him)...I have issues with him doing it in the office of the President with a woman that is his subordinant that is there due to a opening serving on behalf of the American people. I feel the same way if a Republican senator or Governor did it with an employee of the state under them (for example, foley's thing with a page...I have issue with that, because that page is technially a subordinant of him in his capacity as a congressman)
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That was a lot of words for very little profit.... Clinton was wrong for getting a blow job from an intern, he was guilty of a felony when he lied about it under oath.... simple as that.
 
Zyphlin said:
Arguable.

So you're in favor of Professors sleeping with their students, bosses sleeping with their subordinates, doctors sleeping with their patients, lawyers diddling their clients? You think these are all accusations that the various agencies and boards overseeing these various things should not look into when its accused of happening?
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Its between the individual consenting adults
 
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