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Thread: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We could legalize all the drugs you want, but as along as drugs are illegal in Mexico, it wouldn't have any effect on the cartels. What are the cartels going to do? Start paying taxes? I seriously doubt that. The cartelistas aren't afrid to kill, torture, die, or go to prison in the interest of their drug business, why should they suddenly be skeered of dodging a few taxes?

    huh? The cartels have amassed their power because they are feeding U.S. demand, not Mexican demand; which is minuscule in comparison.

    edit: also if WE legalized drugs abandoning the single convention, mexico would quickly follow suit, as would many other nations, especially latin american nations.
    Last edited by marduc; 08-19-09 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are a fair number of deaths to this drug war in the border states. By the way, the whole point I have been making is that legalizing drugs is not likely to happen, so it's best to look at other solutions.
    Such as? Care to suggest a few? Interdiction and incarceration have not had any effect.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Such as? Care to suggest a few? Interdiction and incarceration have not had any effect.
    Read my first post in this thread.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Read my first post in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Provide all material aid that we can to Mexico, allocate more intelligence assets to the region, and pass along any useful information found.

    I don't think we can fight the war for Mexico, but we can at least provide that much.
    All you're proposing is more of the same: more interdiction. Take out Medellin and we got Cali. Take out Kali and we got Sinaloa, Guadalajara, and so on, and now we have La Familia.

    Interdiction has not been a successful strategy. How does more interdiction make any sense?

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    huh? The cartels have amassed their power because they are feeding U.S. demand, not Mexican demand; which is minuscule in comparison.
    The demand is going to go down because drugs are legal? I'm doubting that.

    edit: also if WE legalized drugs abandoning the single convention, mexico would quickly follow suit, as would many other nations, especially latin american nations.

    When you factor in how much the cartels have penetrated the Mexican government, I'm betting that Mexico wouldn't exactly follow suit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    All you're proposing is more of the same: more interdiction. Take out Medellin and we got Cali. Take out Kali and we got Sinaloa, Guadalajara, and so on, and now we have La Familia.

    Interdiction has not been a successful strategy. How does more interdiction make any sense?
    Because there hasn't been enough interdiction. We need to take the gloves off and start scoring some kills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because there hasn't been enough interdiction. We need to take the gloves off and start scoring some kills.
    Scoring some kills? Do you have any idea how many narcotrafficantes have already been killed? And how new ones always manage to take their place?

    You want to chop the heads off a hydra, and every one you lop off grows two more. Your solution is that is to chop off even more heads.

    Insanity squared and cubed.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    All you're proposing is more of the same: more interdiction. Take out Medellin and we got Cali. Take out Kali and we got Sinaloa, Guadalajara, and so on, and now we have La Familia.

    Interdiction has not been a successful strategy. How does more interdiction make any sense?
    Depends on the goal. You are not going to destroy the whole of Mexican drug cartels, so you make it as painful and expensive as possible. You cannot stop any crime entirely, but that does not mean you should legalize everything.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Scoring some kills? Do you have any idea how many narcotrafficantes have already been killed? And how new ones always manage to take their place?

    You want to chop the heads off a hydra, and every one you lop off grows two more. Your solution is that is to chop off even more heads.

    Insanity squared and cubed.
    Obviously, there haven't been enough killed. We need to kill more. Sooner, ot later, people won't want to be drug runners because it's too dangerous. It's called, "deterrence".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: "It's a War": Mexico Under Siege

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are a fair number of deaths to this drug war in the border states. By the way, the whole point I have been making is that legalizing drugs is not likely to happen, so it's best to look at other solutions.

    What are these other solutions we need to be looking at?

    The status quo has not worked, and the populace is awakening to this, are we ready on a federal level for legalization and is it going to happen in the near future? no.

    However the acceptance of the status quo is weakening with growing awareness of the problems of prohibition. What was once thought of as political suicide is becoming a mainstream view very quickly, you will be seeing much more of this debate looking forward, it is not going away.

    Individual states will be legalizing marijuana in the not so distant future, likely with Ca leading the way (especially if it becomes a voter initiative). Let them and a few other states be the guinea pig, and people will realize the portrayed demons are mythological beasts, and opinion will sway even faster.

    A few public supreme court battles over states rights versus ferderal power later and there will likely be a move to amend the constitution (this is long term 10-20 years off I would say)

    The forces that will force the legalization hand are both internal within our own populace, and external with international views; which are also slowly souring, and more and more nations are looking to revisit the treaties that keep drugs illegal on a global scope.

    For now our hands are tied, and it will not be an easy road to lift prohibition, but it is conceivable. The Mexican drug wars are certainly helping to accelerate us down that road though.

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