- if the goal was to remove Saddam Hussein, then yes, it's a victory
- if the goal was to make the USA safer, yes, now we're sure that Iraq doesn't have WMD's, but the invasion made Iran build its own WMD's
- if the goal was to replace a dictatorship by a democracy, yes, there have been elections, but I'm not sure Iraq will stay democratic a long time after the US troop withdraw
- if the goal was to pacify Iraq, then I don't think it's a victory, since there are massive terrorist attacks nearly every month
Did you know that 98% of the casualties in the Iraq war have occured after the end of the "height of the war"?
Next was you trying to capitalize on 5 year old quote that had been acknowledged was too early to have been stated. Woo! Congratulations! You told us something we knew 4 years ago, that the "Mission Accomplished" statement was too early. Wow, how astute of you. Great job. We would've all missed that.
However, currently, the Presidents statements there would be correct. We are out of the period of major combat operation. There majority of the country is far more at rest then it was during the height of the war, the amount of attacks happening are lower, and far more of the country is controlled. It is much closer to a "police action" at the moment than any kind of "war" at the moment. So while yes, the President's statement was premature...something known by most long before your great revelation...your attempt to use it in this context is rather poor since now we are most assuredly outside of the period of "major combat operation".
Do you really think I'm the only one saying that democracy won't work in Iraq? Do you know that there are many factors favorizing democracy, and that none of them is present in Iraq?Your third rather erronious notion was droning on that this somehow "shows" that the attempt in Iraq was a failure and that the people don't want an "imposed" democracy. However, repeated heavy election turnout, such as in February where voter turnout was beyond expectations with little violence seems to counter this notion that its simply "imposed" on them, that they don't want it, and a single idiot blowing himself up somehow proves that it can't work.
No, Bub, what it shows is that some fringe lunatics can become so deluded and manipulated by those above them to blow themselves up to kill their countrymen, or in many cases non-countrymen, in hopes of intimidating them away from something they want.
As for the attacks, you're talking about this attack as if it was a single and isolated event that is not so important, while according to some sources there are over 100 victims and that these attacks occur regularly? Of course there are less attacks than in 2007, but do you think things will calm down when the US troops withdraw?!
+ the people of this place are divided, so it's not gonna work neither
+ the people of that place rely upon oil, they do not have any middle class, so it's not gonna work
what are you talking about? That does not make any senseThat so many on the Left no longer believe other people should decide their own destiny as we do, well, this is a form of imperialism the Left is complacent in, yet so self righteously blind they can not recognize.
Quite the argument going here. I think the escalation in violence is unfortunate. However, all knew that there would be pains when the U.S. troops began pulling-out. Many assert that Iraq can not stand on its own, but I look at it like a kid learning to ride a bike. If you never let go of the seat, the child will never learn to ride on his/her own. Same in Iraq. If the government does not learn to control it's own territory, it never will. I am not saying the U.S. should totally give-up on Iraq, but just as the parent, be there in case the child is severely injured, so we should be for our fledgling democracy.
Sssshhhhhhhhh, it's health care. We've successfully forgotten about Iraq so that we're not reminded that somehow we're still there and that it's still ****ed.
You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo
Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville