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Thread: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

  1. #61
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    he says he's discovered 2/3 of all the money he needs to pay for his jovian ambitions in the areas of waste, fraud and abuse, wellness/prevention, IT and SHAVINGS (he calls em savings) from m&m

    i see this as a SLAP to ted kennedy who devoted his entire life but was apparently just TOO DUMB to find what the kid discovered in a box under a bed, or something, in the lincoln bedroom

    on friday july 17, the day after cbo elmendorf testified in baucus' gateway cmte, senate finance, that the cost curve bent the wrong way, kicking out entire the total prop underpinning obama's entire health care agenda (which, recall, is ECONOMIC, not an issue of fairness, not a matter of social justice, no, obama's prime premise for doing health care in the first place, repeated ad nauseum---we can't AFFORD to do nothing, ie, economics)

    the day after july 16, the biggest, most important day in this young presidency (it was also the day the bluedogs made PUBLIC their reservations with obamacare, july 16), on friday the 17th, obama called an emergency afternoon press conference to try to get the initiative back

    and that was the first time he ever announced to the world that he'd serendipitously, magically "found" all this 2/3 of the cash he needed

    (i knew the very instant he was toast, i was watching live, i'm a school teacher and home on vacation---for one more day, damnit, then back to work for me)

    he actually added, i couldn't believe it---i only have to come up with 1/3 of the money

    what an INSULT to the grownups like our friend above on this thread who CAN do arithmetic

    since then, obama has repeated his 2/3 "findings" and 1/3 "need" mantra everywhere he's gone

    the primetime presser which he ruined by bringing up the cambridge cop (i forget the date), he pushed his 2/3 and 1/3

    the michael jackson funeral reprise, his town hall at portsmouth, last tuesday, a week ago today (or yesterday, depending on where you are)

    grand junction on saturday

    every time he says it i cringe

    long answer, friend, but i respect your independence

    the upshot---by cbo scoring, by ap (associated press) accounts, i can provide the link, he looks to 500 million dollars of savings/shavings off m and m

    aarp on sunday's fns---we're not concerned, we can save money and get BETTER care

    yeah, and moons are cheeses

    this is aarp LEADERSHIP we're talking

    that is, NOT membership

    etc

    i could go on, friend, forever

    you and i are on opposite sides, but i like the way you man up and don't make excuses

    you WON

    kick ASS

    or give someone else the ball

    cliff

  2. #62
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I'll be waiting for your proposal on how to solve the Medicare/Medicaid problem and rising health insurance premiums/stagnant wages with great anticipation.
    That bill would have been a death knell for my future, so I'll send you my proposal as soon as I'm done celebrating.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Health care expenditures in the United States are only one of several private sector problems which endanger the longterm viability of the middle class. But they are in the singular one of the largest, along with house payments and other forms of debt. There is no unitary way of addressing the decline of the middle class, but a cap on premiums would contribute toward the solution.
    You really need to check your statistics.

    If folks are disappearing from the "middle class", it's because they are getting richer, not poorer. Poverty rates overall have been declining for decades.

  4. #64
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Who is "us"? I don't know about you, but most of us have grandparents or poorer relatives and take a dim view of allowing Darwinian evolution to take its course with regard to them. The only people who are supportive of repealing the programs are idealistic people who are incapable of fathoming the concept of historical inevitability. Not even the most libertarian of Republicans would consider running on the motion because they would immediately get hung out to dry by the hundreds of millions of voters who either directly or indirectly rely on Medicare/Medicaid for peace of mind. It's not part of the platform of any political party and so far as I know isn't supported by any grassroots organization -- and certainly not by any influential one.
    Thanks for agreeing with me. It's a program that raises prices for all of us. They do have negative effects.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Hypo:

    Let's say you happen to like your local bar. It's a bit of a dive and some people in town are unhappy with it, but you're largely content with the way it's run. Now imagine that a group of people get together and propose that the bar be converted into an upscale club with bottle service and B&T trash. You don't like that idea, and would much prefer that things remain the way they are. You acknowledge that there are things that could be improved from the status quo, but you would much prefer what you have now to this new type of bar.

    Now, would you consider yourself to be a member of the "party of no" or someone who was totally devoid of ideas? Or would you consider yourself to be someone who simply disagreed with the proposed changes?
    Well...lets see...if its a dive and you are content with it although acknowledge that there are things that could be improved but offer no ideas on how to do it...yes, I would say that you are totally devoid of ideas.

    Thanks for the excellent analogy. The current healthcare system is a dive and the "party of no" is content with the dive and completely devoid of ideas even though they understand and acknowledge that the dive needs to be overhauled.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Well...lets see...if its a dive and you are content with it although acknowledge that there are things that could be improved but offer no ideas on how to do it...yes, I would say that you are totally devoid of ideas.

    Thanks for the excellent analogy. The current healthcare system is a dive and the "party of no" is content with the dive and completely devoid of ideas even though they understand and acknowledge that the dive needs to be overhauled.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC
    They have an obligation to go along with negotiations on a proposal they oppose?

    Let's pretend it's 2005 and the GOP is trying to gin up support for an invasion of Russia. If the Democrats flat-out opposed that proposal, would they be the "party of no"? Would you accuse them of "refusing to engage in policy" unless they proposed a half-measure, like invading Mexico?

    It's completely legitimate for a party to say "this is a bad proposal and we do not support it."

    (This of course ignores the fact that the Republicans have proposed changes, but I don't want to distract from your already flawed argument by getting into this.)
    ...........
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Shhhhh Right!

    You're not supposed to point out that conservatives and republicans have stated alternatives. Then, when you do point that out, they'll complain how they've not tried to pass any legitimate legislation on it since this started while completely ignoring the fact that doing so would be a futile waste of time since the republicans are in a large minority and any bill would essentially be DOA.

    But I'm more enjoying watching Morality Games being filled with the essence of GWB and channeling him in perfect "With us or against us" rhetoric.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    they also express surprise (LOL!) that we just can't "compromise" with that NANCY PELOSI CLONE in the white house

    personification of san francisco EXTREMISM

    if anything, this white house runs LEFT of the palsied speakeress

    genuine frenchified socialist

    if he sincerely wants to DEAL, then, umm, he'd need to DEAL

    if he wants to DICTATE, let him try

    either way, he and his need to GROW UP

    all this WHINING is turning off AMERICA

    we conservatives have been pretty grossed out since our 3rd or so hour of having to stare at that damned CHIN

    it's all he's got, y'know, obama

    his CHIN

    you take away obama's CHIN, aint nothing there

  9. #69
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    AMEN!

    Analysis: Liberals tired of health care compromise - Yahoo! News

    Liberal activists say there's no point in the Democrats winning the House, Senate and White House unless they use their clout to enact the major measures that Obama campaigned for with or without some Republican support (Absolutely!)
    This is indeed true and a FACT. In addition, if the Liberal Democrats decide that they want to SHOVE this down our throats, they also OWN this program, the resulting deficits and the massive tax increases that will be the result of this Government Power grab.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    "It is clear that Republicans have decided 'no health care' is a victory for them," Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, said in an interview. "There is a point at which bipartisanship reaches a limit, and I would say it's reaching that limit (DUH!)
    This hyperbolic blather is beyond false, it is an outright lie and attempt to demagogue the issue.

    Republicans have never been for "NO HEALTH CARE," but rather NO GOVERNMENT managed care which they KNOW will result in massive deficits, massive tax increases and mediocre care with long waiting times and Government entities making decisions for rationing care.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    For liberals supporting far-reaching changes to the nation's health care system, it was another sign that months of negotiations have been a one-way street. It's time to move on without Republicans[/B] (They're starting to get it).
    Once again this is the OBVIOUS. But what is not so obvious and subtle is that it is not Republicans who are blocking this legislation. This is another LIE propagated by Liberal Democrats who are desperately providing cover to the FACT that Democrats also do not support this profoundly DUMB idea.

    I say go for it Democrats; vote for the bill and let's see who REALLY supports it.

    The TRUTH is that Obama and his cabal want some cover for this legislation in the event the REALITIES and TRUTH of what such a program will do to us happen; that way they can desperately suggest that it was a "bi-partisan" effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There's absolutely no point in trying to negotiate with the "party of no".
    Another desperate LIE being spewed by Liberals in an attempt to suggest there cannot be any alternative to their Government managed proposals.

    Yet there are MANY different options and without an HONEST dialogue regarding this extremely important issue we won't make the BEST decision and choice for Americans.

    Honesty is something Democrats have never been very good at.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Obama needs to realize that having a few Republicans on board to make him "look better" is less a priority that getting meaningful healthcare reform passed.
    In this statement we are BOTH in agreement 100%. But then, Obama knows this, he is just trying to provide cover for fellow Democrats who do not support the plan.

    Again; this is NOT a Republican issue. They don't need Republicans and have the majorities to pass this poorly thought out 1,000 page gobbledy-gook legislation without any Republicans. This is indeed a DEMOCRAT issue and a dilemma for the Democrat Party that spends a great deal of time and money to demagogue conservatives knowing full well that many within their own party are also "conservatives" and will not support this massive joke of a legislation authored by the extremists currently leading their party.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The Democrats can do this without 1 Republican vote. Its time for the Democrats to grow a spine and get to work.
    And I say; GO FOR IT!!

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    Re: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Their problem is not the Republicans. They have solid majorities and the Republicans were not going to vote for any bill they put forth anyway because there are hardly any moderates at all left in the Republican party.

    The Democrats have to get the moderate and blue dog Democrats on board, that is their problem.

    I've been writing to the politicians in my state to give them my thoughts. I promised myself I'd do it once a week (that hasn't worked out well) but I am trying to be somewhat consistent in writing them.

    You can only do what you can do but doing nothing is just nothing.



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

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