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Thread: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That's not what the Republican Party is after, however. They want political capital for future elections and will take it at any opportunity, to hell with any problems Medicare/Medicaid or the private sector might have.
    america don't give a fig about gop MOTIVATIONS

    your thinking, pardon my frankness, is so FEMALE

    america wants and expects RESULTS

    from the PARTY in POWER

    get to it

    mom's outta work, the kids are cold, the house payment's late and dad's on dope

    FIX IT

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    ^^Don't give them any more fuel. They've screwed up the economy enough as it is.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    america don't give a fig about gop MOTIVATIONS

    your thinking, pardon my frankness, is so FEMALE

    america wants and expects RESULTS

    from the PARTY in POWER

    get to it

    mom's outta work, the kids are cold, the house payment's late and dad's on dope

    FIX IT
    I can't do anything other than feel good about myself. My party is actually addressing the issues Bush categorically ignored for eight years. In itself, that makes us superior. Success? That'll be nice too.

    Anyway, your thinking is flawed. Your position is tantamount to declaring Republican Congressmen deserve to be salaried for not addressing chronic budget and private sector problems, as opposed to engaging in the issue to the utmost of their power, which is rather significant, minority party or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Did you ever think that Medicare/Medicaid cause more problems than they solve?
    That's not possible. The private sector won't cover recipients of Medicare/Medicaid because they are intrinsically unprofitable and can only hurt business. That population consists of many tens of millions of Americans, many of whom are elderly and dependent on the program for their increasing medical and surgical needs, the rest of whom are participants in the economy. Medicare/Medicaid essentially exists to prevent tens of millions of Americans -- who on family and friend grounds are themselves emotionally involved with hundreds of millions of other Americans -- from slipping into the danger of premature death and irreversible body damage from untreated sicknesses and injuries. Even if we want to assume that the humanitarian concerns implicit in this situation are in no way an issue the United States government need concern itself with, psychological and economic inevitability would demand some form of protection be extended to the uncovered Americans. And since the only institution capable of non-profit orientated health care is government, it is a pretty narrow field to see who will be charged with the responsibility and the bill.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-19-09 at 03:33 AM.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    the president is backing off the necessity of the public insurance option -- purposelessly to my mind, but whatever
    is he?

    is he, really?

    or is he just backing off kinda/sorta?

    you never really know with this guy, now, do you?

    half his party insists he isn't

    why his own press secty THIS MORNING said he isn't, altho the "whistles have been blowing for weeks," he bizarrely added

    ms sebelius says she was and she wasn't

    AT THE SAME TIME

    kinda like the time treas secty geithner and chief econ adviser summers went on mtp and ftn to suggest raising taxes on the middle class

    FOR ONE DAY

    now, there's LEADERSHIP

    them's the ANSWERS america CRAVES

    almost as good as GOING BACK IN TIME

    LOL!

    get real

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That's not possible. The private sector won't cover recipients of Medicare/Medicaid because they are intrinsically unprofitable and can only hurt business.
    It is possible. Medicare and Medicaid raise prices for the rest of us.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It is possible. Medicare and Medicaid raise prices for the rest of us.
    Who is "us"? I don't know about you, but most of us have grandparents or poorer relatives and take a dim view of allowing Darwinian evolution to take its course with regard to them. The only people who are supportive of repealing the programs are idealistic people who are incapable of fathoming the concept of historical inevitability. Not even the most libertarian of Republicans would consider running on the motion because they would immediately get hung out to dry by the hundreds of millions of voters who either directly or indirectly rely on Medicare/Medicaid for peace of mind. It's not part of the platform of any political party and so far as I know isn't supported by any grassroots organization -- and certainly not by any influential one.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-19-09 at 03:38 AM.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    america don't give a fig about gop MOTIVATIONS

    your thinking, pardon my frankness, is so FEMALE

    america wants and expects RESULTS

    from the PARTY in POWER

    get to it

    mom's outta work, the kids are cold, the house payment's late and dad's on dope

    FIX IT
    So very true. The democrats are acting as if they are still the sidelined party that isn't in power. They have a super majority in the senate and a solid majority in the house and yet, they still can't get their mofo act together to come up with a bill that has some teeth and actually serves the purpose of true healthcare reform?
    Albeit the democrats now have more intellectuals as government officials than the republicans, but the republicans have the unapologetic cajones that the democrats do not have.
    They're worried that they're bill won't work and thus are there compromising with republicans that are laughing all the way home at how easy it is to derail these idiots with nothing more than lies, deceit and sabotage.
    The remaining republicans in office today are predominantly those that are solid red from very conservative constituencies - there are no more moderates that are left and even those that are don't dare to really speak out.
    Dems really need to grow a pair bite the bullet and shoot for the moon with the best possible most liberal and progressive bill that actually reforms health care rather than just paying lip service.
    Same with climate change.

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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I can't do anything other than feel good about myself. My party is actually addressing the issues Bush categorically ignored for eight years. In itself, that makes us superior. Success? That'll be nice too.



    That's not possible. The private sector won't cover recipients of Medicare/Medicaid because they are intrinsically unprofitable and can only hurt business. That population consists of many tens of millions of Americans, many of whom are elderly and dependent on the program for their increasing medical and surgical needs, the rest of whom are participants in the economy. Medicare/Medicaid essentially exists to prevent tens of millions of Americans -- who on family and friend grounds are themselves emotionally involved with hundreds of millions of other Americans -- from slipping into the danger of premature death and irreversible body damage from untreated sicknesses and injuries. Even if we want to assume that the humanitarian concerns implicit in this situation are in no way an issue the United States government need concern itself with, psychological and economic inevitability would demand some form of protection be extended to the uncovered Americans. And since the only institution capable of non-profit orientated health care is government, it is a pretty narrow field to see who will be charged with the responsibility and the bill.
    i'm glad you feel good about yourself, you should, you're a very smart man, and you seem like a real good guy, too

    no cheap shots, thanks

    you make way too many excuses, tho

    and GOING BACK IN TIME is absurd, you really should be a bit embarrassed about that one

    if you feel so strongly about medicare and medicaid you perhaps should look at the arithmetic that's gonna bring MASSIVE CUTS to them

    THIS is what's so UPSET the seniors

    now, THERE's some MOTIVATION worth considering

    america doesn't care about gop motivation

    but america is super interested in america's motivations

    and you can't win SQUAT politically if you piss off the seniors

    you really need to re-look at what the IDIOT in the white house is SAYING about M&M funding

  9. #59
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you really need to re-look at what the IDIOT in the white house is SAYING about M&M funding
    What is the idiot in the white house saying about M/M funding?

  10. #60
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    Re: Analysis: Liberals tired of healthcare compromises [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Health care expenditures in the United States are only one of several private sector problems which endanger the longterm viability of the middle class. But they are in the singular one of the largest, along with house payments and other forms of debt. There is no unitary way of addressing the decline of the middle class, but a cap on premiums would contribute toward the solution.
    So would a reduction in overall health care usage due to people not being fat, not smoking, and not feeling entitled to uneconomical end of life care. Guess which one would cost more?

    1. It receives sizable subsidies to meet humanitarian goals it performs poorly at because of mis-use.

    2. It price gouges.

    3. Medicare/Medicaid are integrated into the private sector.

    Medicare and Medicaid are operational successes; most of their recipients are pleased with the services they receive and would not have otherwise been eligible for health insurance due to redlining, which was the publicly approved and politically necessary goal at the time and which has been validated by most members of both parties since. Financing could have been better managed, which is one of the ideas behind reform.


    Saying that Medicare/aid are operational successes but merely suffer from financing problems is incredibly disingenuous.

    If I opened a restaurant that provided all you could eat filet mignon for 99 cents, my patrons would certainly be pleased and would be able to receive filet for a price that they never would have been able to find anywhere else.

    Of course, the fact that my restaurant is doomed to collapse sort of overshadows any enjoyment they might derive.

    Who cares if people like a program if it's so intrinsically flawed as to collapse before the majority of people paying into it can ever withdraw from it? The only reason people on Medicare/aid "like" it today is because it's being paid for by someone else.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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