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AARP loses members over health care stance

AARP loses members over health care stance - USATODAY.com

About 60,000 senior citizens have quit AARP since July 1 due to the group's support for a health care overhaul, a spokesman for the organization said Monday.

The membership loss suggests dissatisfaction on the part of AARP members at a time when many senior citizens are concerned about proposed cuts to Medicare providers to help pay for making health care available for all. But spokesman Drew Nannis said it wasn't unusual for the powerful, 40 million-strong senior citizens' lobby to shed members in droves when it's advocating on a controversial issue.

One of the largest voting blocs in the nation is doing a bit of early voting with their feet on GovernmentCare. They don't want it.

This country is making one message loud and clear--these health care "reform" efforts are not what the people want.

So why is the majority party ignoring the people who elected them?

60,000 / 40,000,000 = 0.15% (that's zero point one five percent, not 15%)

Really representative of the majority of senior citizens. :roll:
 
60,000 / 40,000,000 = 0.15% (that's zero point one five percent, not 15%)

Really representative of the majority of senior citizens. :roll:
Holy ****, I thought the NRA was the most powerful lobby and they only have 12 million!

Hell, do we really have 40 million seniors here!?
 
So you are saying that the majority of seniors don't want "GovernmentCare". That's great. Looks like we all have a large tax cut coming as soon as we get all these seniors off their Medicare "GovernmentCare" and their Social Security "GovernmentCare" and of course lets not forget about those that are on Disability "GovernmentCare".

It looks as though the conservative movement feels like they have hypocrisy nailed down on the moral issues so they are moving on to government programs.
Since when are you an Independent??? You are never independent, you're as liberal as they come. Let me see you once sound conservative and I'll believe you.
 
Since when are you an Independent??? You are never independent, you're as liberal as they come. Let me see you once sound conservative and I'll believe you.
psssst, look at his user-name.
 
The money seniors paid in while they were working subsidized their parents and grandparents Medicare benefits. The majority of seniors will get far more in Medicare benefits than they ever paid in.

If you think the 96 dollars a month seniors pay for Medicare covers the plan for them then you are in a dream world. We, the workers, are subsidizing their health care. Its the very definition of socialism and any senior that would rail against socialism in one breath and demand their medicare in the next is a hypocrite.
Yeah, we know. Don't mix up the discussions, Medicare is another thread that you are welcome to start, but stop the senseless rhetoric here. Where have you been railing against Medicare anyway?
 
I already covered that, the seniors paid in, it isn't their fault that the fund was mismanaged, and they are in fact entitled to the system by law and by promise because they followed the rules, and they also contributed to the system at some point and time.

Their benefits are being paid right now, and it would not matter if Warren Buffet would have ran the program it still would be in trouble due to skyrocketing healthcare costs. Medicare is in trouble because healthcare costs are growing at least twice the inflation rate.

Also covered that, but we also get those benefits when we retire, not that I think it's a great deal, but it is the way it works, UHC is different in that it's an automatic entitlement that many users do not contribute to, which would make the seniors concerns and arguments both different and completely valid respectively. Medicare is a socialist program, I never denied that, Medicaid is the very definition of socialism in that users are not all contributory, we pay for it and don't use it, we will all have the benefit of Medicare(probably not actually) if we work for the number of quarters required and meet the criteria, that does not change the fact that if you don't work the required amount of quarters and pay taxes, you don't get into the system, unlike UHC which is an automatic entitlement, so yes, the seniors do have a valid and unhypocritical argument as they aren't complaining about the same thing.

First off, I am not arguing against the societal need for Medicare or some other program like it. The vast majority of seniors could not fund their own retirement on their own and fund their own medical coverage through the private sector. Without a massively subsidized program, most seniors could not possibly afford health care. So while Medicare is ripe for reform, its a necessity unless we want the majority of seniors to do without healthcare.

Secondly, I am not even necessarily arguing in favor of a federal universal healthcare system. In a nation of 300 million people, I don't see how such a program could possibly be managed efficiently at the federal level.

My problem is with the hypocrisy. If you depend on the world's largest socialist healthcare program, and that program is made possible by huge wealth transfers from younger working generations, then don't drag your ass out to a town hall to scream against "socialism" and "keeping the government out of your Medicare". That is the very definition of hypocrisy. Unless we all want to see huge increases in our FICA taxes, Medicare has to be reformed. That is just the way it is. However, we will be able to reform it if we have a bunch of hypocrites out decrying socialism every time someone from either side of the political spectrum suggests we do anything to change it.

If you ask me, Medicare would be fairly simple to fix. All we need to do is start charging Medicare recipients premiums that account for the risk their personal life choices result in. For example, why should a smoker on Medicare pay the same rate as a non-smoker? Why should someone that is obese on Medicare pay the same rate as a recipient that eats right and keeps their weight down?

Its pretty damn screwed up when 30 year old cancer patient that loses their insurance has to be absolutely destitute before they qualify for government aid, but a 300 pound smoker on Medicare gets everyone else to pick up the tab for their poor life choices. Of course, if someone actually tried to change Medicare and actually charge the obese and smokers higher rates being they will cost us a ton more than others on the program, the screamers would be out in bigger droves than they are now.
 
Their benefits are being paid right now, and it would not matter if Warren Buffet would have ran the program it still would be in trouble due to skyrocketing healthcare costs. Medicare is in trouble because healthcare costs are growing at least twice the inflation rate.
Right, tort law and the AMA have alot to do with skyrocketing healthcare costs, but the fact is that most of the bleed on Medicare is administrative costs and the fact that the funding is not protected against being leached off of by the general fund, in other words, 100% of it's funding does not go where it belongs. Outside of that, taxes are never enough to fund something as inflation prone and overregulated as the health industry by itself because of the nature of this mess, but there are alternatives to a tax only model, such as heath funds being annuitized, HSA models being modified and other funding mechanisms such as bonds, it's quite possible to keep the program solvent, but less convenient for political purposes.


First off, I am not arguing against the societal need for Medicare or some other program like it. The vast majority of seniors could not fund their own retirement on their own and fund their own medical coverage through the private sector.
Untrue, seniors benefits are still being taxed, which takes them out of the retirement planning market if they are stuck with government only retirement benefits, the first thing that should happen is everyone's taxes should be lowered so that people can fund their own needs such as food, shelter, retirement planning, etc., furthermore, there are plenty of private market solutions that are more than sufficient to help seniors but if they are concentrating on pure survival these options are fiscally out of their reaches, IRA's, Annuities, private pension funds, mutual funds, and even the stock market(if people can stand the risk) are all fantastic options, but again, sometimes the taxes shorten gains or the minimums for the plans are out of reach when people have no savings less after tax.
Without a massively subsidized program, most seniors could not possibly afford health care. So while Medicare is ripe for reform, its a necessity unless we want the majority of seniors to do without healthcare.
You're close, reform is needed, but for efficiency in provision and cost, not subsidy reform.

Secondly, I am not even necessarily arguing in favor of a federal universal healthcare system. In a nation of 300 million people, I don't see how such a program could possibly be managed efficiently at the federal level.
Fair enough, I may have misunderstood where you were coming from as this is the major contention point at the moment.

My problem is with the hypocrisy. If you depend on the world's largest socialist healthcare program, and that program is made possible by huge wealth transfers from younger working generations, then don't drag your ass out to a town hall to scream against "socialism" and "keeping the government out of your Medicare". That is the very definition of hypocrisy. Unless we all want to see huge increases in our FICA taxes, Medicare has to be reformed. That is just the way it is. However, we will be able to reform it if we have a bunch of hypocrites out decrying socialism every time someone from either side of the political spectrum suggests we do anything to change it.
I still don't see it as the quite the same thing, simply because of the contributory nature of the programs.

If you ask me, Medicare would be fairly simple to fix. All we need to do is start charging Medicare recipients premiums that account for the risk their personal life choices result in.
Actually, since supplementals are semi-private, give tax credits for using them and allow the companies more bargaining power so that they can relax underwriting standards and open up that market more, this would take alot of the payment burden off of the Medicare A/B side.
 
Since when are you an Independent??? You are never independent, you're as liberal as they come. Let me see you once sound conservative and I'll believe you.

Is he wrong? Or are you just going to make snide commentary as usual adding nothing to the discussion?

SI is correct in that the Republicans (I wouldn't call them Conservative) are hypocrites in telling seniors that socialized medicine is bad for them when so many of them enjoy socialized medicine. Furthermore, the Republicans in Congress enjoy an exceptionally expensive socialized medicine program. As do our military personnel. Doesn't work eh according to those in power who actively take advantage of it? :roll:
 
Hmm I've read this story as well as the CBS story that this article draws from and I'm curious as to what their source was for the cancellation. Did AARP themselves specifically say that they had 60,000 cancel or did the rival organization ASA claim such? So where exactly did they get their 60,000 number? The article doesn't seem to give a source for that.

Also if they normally lose 300,000 monthly and gain 400,000 they would be at a net gain of 100,000 members even with this 60,000 number they still have 40,000 plus members joining a month. So without more data its hard to tell if they actually lost 60,000 and what the reasons were.
 
The money seniors paid in while they were working subsidized their parents and grandparents Medicare benefits. The majority of seniors will get far more in Medicare benefits than they ever paid in.

If you think the 96 dollars a month seniors pay for Medicare covers the plan for them then you are in a dream world. We, the workers, are subsidizing their health care. Its the very definition of socialism and any senior that would rail against socialism in one breath and demand their medicare in the next is a hypocrite.

There are significant differences between Medicare/Medicaid for seniors and any form of UHC. Seniors are retired without a steady income, they are not typically able to participate in an employee insurance program or purchase their own. They could very well have the will to pay for their own healthcare, just not the resources. The UHC program being promoted by Congress and the President would force people to pay for healthcare for people who are very much able to pay for their own, the only thing missing is the will to do so.

Significant difference.
 
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The way things are now is they are bleeding the system dry. That's why things have to change. Unless you want a massive fica tax increase in a few years, Medicare has to be reformed.

How about reforming regulation? The hospital I work in is a prime example. We are subjected to numerous inspections by law, and they are all looking for the same thing. Why not cut cost for procurers, manufacturers, suppliers, and the hospitals, so they can pass that savings on to patients? Eliminating some of these regulations would do just that.

How about streamlining the government so unnecessary bureaucracy is removed? That would save the government programs a ton of money.

Broken government programs cannot be fixed with more of the same, and more expensive, government programs. Put the power into the hands of the people seeking profits and things will always improve. Again, my employer is the perfect example. It was the county hospital, government-run healthcare. It was slowly decaying. Now, it is privately owned and one of the biggest medical centers in the Midwest.
 
I'm dependent on medicare and I don't want government involved in health care!!!! Ah!! Death Panels! Ah!!! Hysteria!! Misinformed ignorant hysteria!!! Ah!!
 
I'm dependent on medicare and I don't want government involved in health care!!!! Ah!! Death Panels! Ah!!! Hysteria!! Misinformed ignorant hysteria!!! Ah!!
So can you show us you are informed, or do you just want to spit out incorrect talking points?
 
How about reforming regulation? The hospital I work in is a prime example. We are subjected to numerous inspections by law, and they are all looking for the same thing. Why not cut cost for procurers, manufacturers, suppliers, and the hospitals, so they can pass that savings on to patients? Eliminating some of these regulations would do just that.

How about streamlining the government so unnecessary bureaucracy is removed? That would save the government programs a ton of money.

Broken government programs cannot be fixed with more of the same, and more expensive, government programs. Put the power into the hands of the people seeking profits and things will always improve. Again, my employer is the perfect example. It was the county hospital, government-run healthcare. It was slowly decaying. Now, it is privately owned and one of the biggest medical centers in the Midwest.

Hasn't there also been some studies done that showed how worker productivity in hospitals is absolutely abysmal compared to any other economic sector though? It seems that any time you have well paid employees (as they should be), with low productivity levels compared to other sectors, you are going to have a very hard time controlling costs.

I am not saying that there are not some burdensome regulations on hospitals that increase costs, but the larger problem is that you have an industry that is largely shielded from the law of supply and demand. Regardless of how expensive health care is, regardless of how inefficient a hospital is, demand remains the same. Thus there is not the incentive to control costs like there would be in any other industry.

Also, private hospitals earn more than county hospitals because they don't have to take nearly as many of the uninsured as a county hospital does.
 
Hmm I've read this story as well as the CBS story that this article draws from and I'm curious as to what their source was for the cancellation. Did AARP themselves specifically say that they had 60,000 cancel or did the rival organization ASA claim such? So where exactly did they get their 60,000 number? The article doesn't seem to give a source for that.

Also if they normally lose 300,000 monthly and gain 400,000 they would be at a net gain of 100,000 members even with this 60,000 number they still have 40,000 plus members joining a month. So without more data its hard to tell if they actually lost 60,000 and what the reasons were.

Exactly, this is another line in the tired thread by the usual suspects in their pathetic attempt to derail the healthcare debate.

On top of that the "opposition" organisation had a deal that said send in your AARP card cut over and get a free year......

Much to do about nothing really.
 
Is he wrong? Or are you just going to make snide commentary as usual adding nothing to the discussion?

SI is correct in that the Republicans (I wouldn't call them Conservative) are hypocrites in telling seniors that socialized medicine is bad for them when so many of them enjoy socialized medicine. Furthermore, the Republicans in Congress enjoy an exceptionally expensive socialized medicine program. As do our military personnel. Doesn't work eh according to those in power who actively take advantage of it? :roll:
His name isn't SI is it? Don't bring the military into it, that's another animal. Yes Medicare is socialized, but it is not the same program being trotted through Congress right now, so let's concentrate on one program at a time. You had 40 years to debate Medicare, but you choose now to do so. Your point? Maybe you'd like to discuss Social Security now too, as a whole? AARP is a group of gangsters, preying on the elderly. They always want more government power because they thrive on dependency. I'll bet those thugs (who caringly look out for the destitute elderly) have their own corporate jet.
 
Right, tort law and the AMA have alot to do with skyrocketing healthcare costs, but the fact is that most of the bleed on Medicare is administrative costs and the fact that the funding is not protected against being leached off of by the general fund, in other words, 100% of it's funding does not go where it belongs. Outside of that, taxes are never enough to fund something as inflation prone and overregulated as the health industry by itself because of the nature of this mess, but there are alternatives to a tax only model, such as heath funds being annuitized, HSA models being modified and other funding mechanisms such as bonds, it's quite possible to keep the program solvent, but less convenient for political purposes.

Medicare Administrative costs are very low compared to their counterparts in the private sector. Fraud is a bigger issue with Medicare than Administrative Costs. I remember reading in the Business Journal a few years back where the local head of Blue Cross Blue Shield was holding up Medicare's Administrative costs as a goal for them to reach.

Untrue, seniors benefits are still being taxed, which takes them out of the retirement planning market if they are stuck with government only retirement benefits, the first thing that should happen is everyone's taxes should be lowered so that people can fund their own needs such as food, shelter, retirement planning, etc., furthermore, there are plenty of private market solutions that are more than sufficient to help seniors but if they are concentrating on pure survival these options are fiscally out of their reaches, IRA's, Annuities, private pension funds, mutual funds, and even the stock market(if people can stand the risk) are all fantastic options, but again, sometimes the taxes shorten gains or the minimums for the plans are out of reach when people have no savings less after tax. You're close, reform is needed, but for efficiency in provision and cost, not subsidy reform.
Only a minority of seniors earn enough to actually pay any significant taxes on their Social Security benefits.

Do the math. You have a median household income in the United States of 48k a year. Do away with Social Security and Medicare, and lets say that typical household saves 10% of their income for their retirement at an average annual return of 8% over the course of their working years (say for 40 years). Saving an average of 10% of your income for retirement considering all the other expenses a typical household will encounter over the course of their working lives is pretty optimistic, but just the same lets say they can do that. Considering you would no longer be paying fica taxes, you ought to be able to put aside 10% of your income for retirement.

If they retire at 65, then by the time they reach retirement age they are going to have around 1.2 million dollars in their retirement savings. That's a lot of money, but inflation will be working against you for 40 years, so buying power will be less. When you take into account average inflation, you will be looking at around 750k of purchasing power. Still a pretty good chunk of money the problem is you got to stretch that out for you and your wife until you die, preferably at least in your early 80s. That still leaves you with a decent monthly income though. The problem is that you will have to purchase insurance for you and your wife in the private sector. The problem there is that it will be extremely expensive even at age 65 and the older you get, the more expensive it will be. Even early in your retirement it will cost you more than half your retirement income each month, and once your in your 70s, it could cost you the majority of your retirement income each month. If you have any significant health issues at all, which you will, you are no longer going to be able to afford it.
 
Hmm I've read this story as well as the CBS story that this article draws from and I'm curious as to what their source was for the cancellation. Did AARP themselves specifically say that they had 60,000 cancel or did the rival organization ASA claim such? So where exactly did they get their 60,000 number? The article doesn't seem to give a source for that.

Also if they normally lose 300,000 monthly and gain 400,000 they would be at a net gain of 100,000 members even with this 60,000 number they still have 40,000 plus members joining a month. So without more data its hard to tell if they actually lost 60,000 and what the reasons were.


Here's some more data, from ASA's website:

Get a second year for FREE!
Click the Orange Button to your right...JOIN and then mail your TORN AARP card along with your new ASA membership number to 3700 Mansell Rd., Suite 220, Alpharetta, GA 30022 to get a second year of membership for free!

Medicare Insurance Prescription Discounts Senior Citizens


It's a promotional gig.....something the original story didn't mention. They're trying to draw in business just like the AFA did (unsuccessfully).



Gotta love that truth in reporting.
 
Here is a question. I see many conservatives love the status quo, so would you be in favor of breaking-up the insurance monopolies? As far as I can tell there are really only two big players in health insurance, Humana and Wellpoint (merger between Anthem and Wellpoint). How is this a real market with healthy competition? It isn't, you have two companies that are mainly responsible to stockholders, not patients or doctors.
 
Here is a question. I see many conservatives love the status quo, so would you be in favor of breaking-up the insurance monopolies?
There's no more an insurance monopoy as there is a auto-maker monopoly.

It isn't, you have two companies that are mainly responsible to stockholders, not patients or doctors.
Companies are always responsible to their stockholders, for tunring a profit.
That's why they exist.
 
There's no more an insurance monopoy as there is a auto-maker monopoly.


Companies are always responsible to their stockholders, for tunring a profit.
That's why they exist.

Name me more than two insurance companies. Let's see, in automobiles there are several domestic as well as imports. Are there any import options available in healthcare?:doh

Right, so why do they pretend to be there for the patients, they are not.
 
Health Insurance Companies


What makes you think they pretend anything?
And, how does your response negate what I said?

These are all branches of the same company genius, Anthem is Wellpoint and so are the others listed.

It doesn't, it proves my point. Insurance companies are fleecing Americans to make money, and are determining what procedures patients get and doctors perform in order to increase those profits. It should not be a business.
 
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