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Thread: AARP loses members over health care stance

  1. #41
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    How about reforming regulation? The hospital I work in is a prime example. We are subjected to numerous inspections by law, and they are all looking for the same thing. Why not cut cost for procurers, manufacturers, suppliers, and the hospitals, so they can pass that savings on to patients? Eliminating some of these regulations would do just that.

    How about streamlining the government so unnecessary bureaucracy is removed? That would save the government programs a ton of money.

    Broken government programs cannot be fixed with more of the same, and more expensive, government programs. Put the power into the hands of the people seeking profits and things will always improve. Again, my employer is the perfect example. It was the county hospital, government-run healthcare. It was slowly decaying. Now, it is privately owned and one of the biggest medical centers in the Midwest.
    Hasn't there also been some studies done that showed how worker productivity in hospitals is absolutely abysmal compared to any other economic sector though? It seems that any time you have well paid employees (as they should be), with low productivity levels compared to other sectors, you are going to have a very hard time controlling costs.

    I am not saying that there are not some burdensome regulations on hospitals that increase costs, but the larger problem is that you have an industry that is largely shielded from the law of supply and demand. Regardless of how expensive health care is, regardless of how inefficient a hospital is, demand remains the same. Thus there is not the incentive to control costs like there would be in any other industry.

    Also, private hospitals earn more than county hospitals because they don't have to take nearly as many of the uninsured as a county hospital does.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  2. #42
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Hmm I've read this story as well as the CBS story that this article draws from and I'm curious as to what their source was for the cancellation. Did AARP themselves specifically say that they had 60,000 cancel or did the rival organization ASA claim such? So where exactly did they get their 60,000 number? The article doesn't seem to give a source for that.

    Also if they normally lose 300,000 monthly and gain 400,000 they would be at a net gain of 100,000 members even with this 60,000 number they still have 40,000 plus members joining a month. So without more data its hard to tell if they actually lost 60,000 and what the reasons were.
    Exactly, this is another line in the tired thread by the usual suspects in their pathetic attempt to derail the healthcare debate.

    On top of that the "opposition" organisation had a deal that said send in your AARP card cut over and get a free year......

    Much to do about nothing really.
    PeteEU

  3. #43
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Is he wrong? Or are you just going to make snide commentary as usual adding nothing to the discussion?

    SI is correct in that the Republicans (I wouldn't call them Conservative) are hypocrites in telling seniors that socialized medicine is bad for them when so many of them enjoy socialized medicine. Furthermore, the Republicans in Congress enjoy an exceptionally expensive socialized medicine program. As do our military personnel. Doesn't work eh according to those in power who actively take advantage of it?
    His name isn't SI is it? Don't bring the military into it, that's another animal. Yes Medicare is socialized, but it is not the same program being trotted through Congress right now, so let's concentrate on one program at a time. You had 40 years to debate Medicare, but you choose now to do so. Your point? Maybe you'd like to discuss Social Security now too, as a whole? AARP is a group of gangsters, preying on the elderly. They always want more government power because they thrive on dependency. I'll bet those thugs (who caringly look out for the destitute elderly) have their own corporate jet.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  4. #44
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Right, tort law and the AMA have alot to do with skyrocketing healthcare costs, but the fact is that most of the bleed on Medicare is administrative costs and the fact that the funding is not protected against being leached off of by the general fund, in other words, 100% of it's funding does not go where it belongs. Outside of that, taxes are never enough to fund something as inflation prone and overregulated as the health industry by itself because of the nature of this mess, but there are alternatives to a tax only model, such as heath funds being annuitized, HSA models being modified and other funding mechanisms such as bonds, it's quite possible to keep the program solvent, but less convenient for political purposes.
    Medicare Administrative costs are very low compared to their counterparts in the private sector. Fraud is a bigger issue with Medicare than Administrative Costs. I remember reading in the Business Journal a few years back where the local head of Blue Cross Blue Shield was holding up Medicare's Administrative costs as a goal for them to reach.

    Untrue, seniors benefits are still being taxed, which takes them out of the retirement planning market if they are stuck with government only retirement benefits, the first thing that should happen is everyone's taxes should be lowered so that people can fund their own needs such as food, shelter, retirement planning, etc., furthermore, there are plenty of private market solutions that are more than sufficient to help seniors but if they are concentrating on pure survival these options are fiscally out of their reaches, IRA's, Annuities, private pension funds, mutual funds, and even the stock market(if people can stand the risk) are all fantastic options, but again, sometimes the taxes shorten gains or the minimums for the plans are out of reach when people have no savings less after tax. You're close, reform is needed, but for efficiency in provision and cost, not subsidy reform.
    Only a minority of seniors earn enough to actually pay any significant taxes on their Social Security benefits.

    Do the math. You have a median household income in the United States of 48k a year. Do away with Social Security and Medicare, and lets say that typical household saves 10% of their income for their retirement at an average annual return of 8% over the course of their working years (say for 40 years). Saving an average of 10% of your income for retirement considering all the other expenses a typical household will encounter over the course of their working lives is pretty optimistic, but just the same lets say they can do that. Considering you would no longer be paying fica taxes, you ought to be able to put aside 10% of your income for retirement.

    If they retire at 65, then by the time they reach retirement age they are going to have around 1.2 million dollars in their retirement savings. That's a lot of money, but inflation will be working against you for 40 years, so buying power will be less. When you take into account average inflation, you will be looking at around 750k of purchasing power. Still a pretty good chunk of money the problem is you got to stretch that out for you and your wife until you die, preferably at least in your early 80s. That still leaves you with a decent monthly income though. The problem is that you will have to purchase insurance for you and your wife in the private sector. The problem there is that it will be extremely expensive even at age 65 and the older you get, the more expensive it will be. Even early in your retirement it will cost you more than half your retirement income each month, and once your in your 70s, it could cost you the majority of your retirement income each month. If you have any significant health issues at all, which you will, you are no longer going to be able to afford it.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #45
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Hmm I've read this story as well as the CBS story that this article draws from and I'm curious as to what their source was for the cancellation. Did AARP themselves specifically say that they had 60,000 cancel or did the rival organization ASA claim such? So where exactly did they get their 60,000 number? The article doesn't seem to give a source for that.

    Also if they normally lose 300,000 monthly and gain 400,000 they would be at a net gain of 100,000 members even with this 60,000 number they still have 40,000 plus members joining a month. So without more data its hard to tell if they actually lost 60,000 and what the reasons were.

    Here's some more data, from ASA's website:

    Get a second year for FREE!
    Click the Orange Button to your right...JOIN and then mail your TORN AARP card along with your new ASA membership number to 3700 Mansell Rd., Suite 220, Alpharetta, GA 30022 to get a second year of membership for free!

    Medicare Insurance Prescription Discounts Senior Citizens


    It's a promotional gig.....something the original story didn't mention. They're trying to draw in business just like the AFA did (unsuccessfully).



    Gotta love that truth in reporting.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  6. #46
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Here is a question. I see many conservatives love the status quo, so would you be in favor of breaking-up the insurance monopolies? As far as I can tell there are really only two big players in health insurance, Humana and Wellpoint (merger between Anthem and Wellpoint). How is this a real market with healthy competition? It isn't, you have two companies that are mainly responsible to stockholders, not patients or doctors.

  7. #47
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Here is a question. I see many conservatives love the status quo, so would you be in favor of breaking-up the insurance monopolies?
    There's no more an insurance monopoy as there is a auto-maker monopoly.

    It isn't, you have two companies that are mainly responsible to stockholders, not patients or doctors.
    Companies are always responsible to their stockholders, for tunring a profit.
    That's why they exist.

  8. #48
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There's no more an insurance monopoy as there is a auto-maker monopoly.


    Companies are always responsible to their stockholders, for tunring a profit.
    That's why they exist.
    Name me more than two insurance companies. Let's see, in automobiles there are several domestic as well as imports. Are there any import options available in healthcare?

    Right, so why do they pretend to be there for the patients, they are not.

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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Name me more than two insurance companies.
    Health Insurance Companies

    Right, so why do they pretend to be there for the patients, they are not.
    What makes you think they pretend anything?
    And, how does your response negate what I said?

  10. #50
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    Re: AARP loses members over health care stance

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Health Insurance Companies


    What makes you think they pretend anything?
    And, how does your response negate what I said?
    These are all branches of the same company genius, Anthem is Wellpoint and so are the others listed.

    It doesn't, it proves my point. Insurance companies are fleecing Americans to make money, and are determining what procedures patients get and doctors perform in order to increase those profits. It should not be a business.

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