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Thread: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

  1. #71
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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    The insures those rights with the penal system. Why have a criminal system with ant-murder laws, if it is not the gov'ts job to ensure the right to live.
    Criminal laws do not 'ensure' anyone's ability to do anything.
    They 'ensure' that those that violate the rights of others will be punished.
    In this, they -protect- the rights of the people, which differs from 'ensuring' or 'providing'.

    So, I ask again:

    How does the latter necessarily follow from the former?
    Second:
    How does "the duty to ensure the rights of people" equate to providing the means to exercise those rights, or even ensuring that those people can afford to exercise them?

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    ............................................why not repeal SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools, Park Services, Infrastructure, food stamps, and everything else the govt provides then.
    and so it goes...

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    This is ridiculous.

    If they go ahead with this, they are ignoring people and acting like they can do what they wish.
    If Dems then revise their options in the face of a public backlash or dissatisfaction with what is being offered and seek to find a common ground. The Republicans and protestors were right. This move should be welcomed by those who opposed him previously.

    In my view, this makes Obama even more likeable if he is willing to back down and change his stance. That is a quality found very rarely amongst politicans.
    Willing to back down? No, darling, he was FORCED to back down by a pissed off American public. Obama wanted to ram this bill through just like every other piece of garabage he's advocated. Once he and his devoted followers realized that - GASP! - not every American is a radical leftist he said to himself, "Mmmmmm, I might actually have to make health care reform a bipartisan effort because shutting half of the country out of the policy process is absolutely insane and insulting."

    Screw him, he didn't even know what was in the bill and once again created a non-existent crisis in order to fear-monger and distort public opinion. There was so many things wrong with this bill that I don't even know where to start...just an awful, awful attempt by this administration to reform health care.

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    ............................................why not repeal SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools, Park Services, Infrastructure, food stamps, and everything else the govt provides then.
    Sounds good to me. Let State and local governments provide those services if they wish...no need for the Federal government to involve itself.

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    ............................................why not repeal SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools, Park Services, Infrastructure, food stamps, and everything else the govt provides then.
    I'm sorry -- we're discussing your stated posiiton and the arguments you tried to use to support it, not your red herrings...

    So, I ask again:

    How does the latter necessarily follow from the former?
    Second:
    How does "the duty to ensure the rights of people" equate to providing the means to exercise those rights, or even ensuring that those people can afford to exercise them?

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    ............................................why not repeal SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools, Park Services, Infrastructure, food stamps, and everything else the govt provides then.
    LOL!

    get real

    you're debating on a cloud

    health care's dead

    that means, so is the obama presidency

    sorry

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    ............................................why not repeal SSI, Medicaid, Public Schools, Park Services, Infrastructure, food stamps, and everything else the govt provides then.
    Dunno. Why not?

    Besides, you're arguing from the same position that so many others do, and it's a weak one -- you equate the concept of limited government with no government.

    That does not follow.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    I think I will just lurk and wait for what comes out of the Senate.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    How do people against some or all of the proposed health care reform bill reconcile the difference between the ambulance and the doctor? Emergency services, fire, police, paramedics, etc. are socialized in our country.

    Why do we draw the line at the hospital or Dr.'s doorstep? Why are you on your own dime when the ambulance drops you at the emergency room?

    We actually had to pass laws to make it illegal for emergency rooms to refuse care to those with an immediate need. There was a time (and maybe this still goes on) where ambulance drivers asked what kind of insurance you have. How did it come to that? No founding father or free-market capitalist would ever support that kind of morally reprehensible behavior, but some how it went on.

    I don't believe that all health care insurance providers are greedy, soulless entities. Many of the horror stories happen with low-cost or budget providers. The bigger companies that provide insurance for companies and their employees have too much to loose by not operating in an ethical manner. If too many employees complain to their employer, the company will start shopping around.

    Something to consider: Spending vs. outcome. How is that the areas that spend the most on health insurance don't have better health outcomes than those areas that spend less?

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    Re: White House appears ready to drop 'public option'

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    How do people against some or all of the proposed health care reform bill reconcile the difference between the ambulance and the doctor? Emergency services, fire, police, paramedics, etc. are socialized in our country.

    Why do we draw the line at the hospital or Dr.'s doorstep? Why are you on your own dime when the ambulance drops you at the emergency room?

    We actually had to pass laws to make it illegal for emergency rooms to refuse care to those with an immediate need. There was a time (and maybe this still goes on) where ambulance drivers asked what kind of insurance you have. How did it come to that? No founding father or free-market capitalist would ever support that kind of morally reprehensible behavior, but some how it went on.

    I don't believe that all health care insurance providers are greedy, soulless entities. Many of the horror stories happen with low-cost or budget providers. The bigger companies that provide insurance for companies and their employees have too much to loose by not operating in an ethical manner. If too many employees complain to their employer, the company will start shopping around.

    Something to consider: Spending vs. outcome. How is that the areas that spend the most on health insurance don't have better health outcomes than those areas that spend less?
    Ambulances and paramedics are not socialized where I am. They are private businesses who provide excellent service because they are competing with other ambulance companies.

    As far as fire fighters, I have no problem contracting them out. Police should stay as government controlled because they are enforcing government laws. It would probably be more difficult to get citizens to obey private companies that are enforcing government laws.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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