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Thread: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

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    Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    My Way News - Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Kathleen Sebelius says opponents of the administration's health overhaul are using scare tactics to try to derail an overhaul. She says that claims the government would set up death panels to rule on life-sustaining care for ailing older people are wrong. In her words, "nothing could be further from the truth."
    What else can we call a "comparative effectiveness research commission" empowered to decide whether it is more "effective" to treat granny or to let her die, if not a "death panel"?

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Doesn't insurance companies also in effect sentence people to death if they choose to?
    Is it fine if it is a private company but nothing short of hell if it is a Government?


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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Well, the goal is efficiency and lower costs amid scarce resources.

    Which means that it basically becomes a triage on a national level.

    In a triage, you allocate resources to those who have the best chance of survival . . . and sometimes leave others to die.

    This is standard medical practice.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    What else can we call a "comparative effectiveness research commission" empowered to decide whether it is more "effective" to treat granny or to let her die, if not a "death panel"?
    You can call it the same thing that the PRIVATE insurance companies do now since they are doing the same thing. Do you call the private insurance companies "Death Panels"?

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Doesn't insurance companies also in effect sentence people to death if they choose to?
    Is it fine if it is a private company but nothing short of hell if it is a Government?
    You can argue it either way, but the point is, the implication that the government might do that is considered outrageous.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You can argue it either way, but the point is, the implication that the government might do that is considered outrageous.
    In that we will agree to disagree.
    It is foolish to expect the Govt. to save everyone.


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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Doesn't insurance companies also in effect sentence people to death if they choose to?
    Is it fine if it is a private company but nothing short of hell if it is a Government?
    Insurance companies are delivering on a contract. If folks aren't getting the right terms in the contract, then we should be focusing on getting the right terms, and then being prepared to pay accordingly. If the coverage is inadequate the resolution is to buy more coverage; the flaw in private insurance is one that marketplace negotiation is quite able to resolve, if the market mechanisms were allowed back into health insurance.

    GovernmentCare is not a market, and there is no place for negotiation. I do not want the equivalent of NICE, where folks have to routinely protest to get the government to pull its head of its ass on healthcare. I do not want a bunch of government bureaucrats stamping a dollar value on my life based on a QALY score calculated in some basement in Washington.

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Doesn't insurance companies also in effect sentence people to death if they choose to?
    Is it fine if it is a private company but nothing short of hell if it is a Government?
    Now you are getting it right.

    Yes, an Insurance company can deny a customer care if they feel it is not covered. That customer can then search out other options to include paying for it themselves. Under this Bobo Care turd of a bill that is not an option. Or, I guess one can just go to another Federal government for care.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    My Way News - Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic



    What else can we call a "comparative effectiveness research commission" empowered to decide whether it is more "effective" to treat granny or to let her die, if not a "death panel"?
    Of course it is a scare tactic. I'm scared every time I think this might pass.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: Sebelius: Talk of `death panels' is scare tactic

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    In that we will agree to disagree.
    It is foolish to expect the Govt. to save everyone.
    It is foolish to put the government in the position of saving people period.

    The United States Constitution, through its 14th Amendment, mandates equal protection of the law, and equal application of the law. If health care is rendered a matter of law, through GovernmentCare, the standard for the United States is that the Government must provide equally for all. The old must be regarded as vital as the young, the chronically ill must be regarded as vital as the robustly healthy. This is the standard to which the United States government is beholden.

    As regards health care, this is not a standard the government can achieve. No matter how well funded GovernmentCare might be, through whatever mechanism, government will have to allocate resources (for all resources are scarce), and so government will have to choose whom to sacrifice and whom to save. Government will have to make this choice because the resources will always be less than the demand upon them. Government will have to allow an unequal application of health care law, for no other application could be sustainable. Government will have to allow that which the Constitution says it must never allow.

    The Constitution of the United States does not guarantee equal outcomes in all situations. The Constitution does guarantee that the government will apply itself equally to all people; the only way government can measure up to that guarantee in health care is to not assume the role of providing health care. The only fully equal GovernmentCare is no GovernmentCare.

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