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Thread: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

  1. #61
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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Considering that it is mostly going to be the family doctor doing the counseling, do you really think this is likely? Oh wait, it's Scarecrow, you probably do...
    I'm not stupid enough to believe the government. For some reason all the fools pushing this nonsense can't seem to look at the 80 year history of government "helping" us. They want to live in the dreamland they entered when they voted for their Messiah and want to ignore the harsh realities of a world with limited resources, not to mention the fact that my paycheck isn't their resource.

    You happy with losing 20% of your pay, or more, to fund Messiah-Care?

    Or are you silly enough to deny that's what has to happen?

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I'm not stupid enough to believe the government. For some reason all the fools pushing this nonsense can't seem to look at the 80 year history of government "helping" us. They want to live in the dreamland they entered when they voted for their Messiah and want to ignore the harsh realities of a world with limited resources, not to mention the fact that my paycheck isn't their resource.

    You happy with losing 20% of your pay, or more, to fund Messiah-Care?

    Or are you silly enough to deny that's what has to happen?
    Id be happy if people did not have to go bankrupt over medical bills and then have the rest of us cover all those bills.

  3. #63
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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I can't believe how little people really understand about this. You all must be really young and you're parents are all active and healthy.

    Natural death comes in many forms. Several of which can be long and painful. It's not about suicide or suicide counselors--jeez that is naive.

    It's a very simple series of questions that help a person better define quality of life. With some medical conditions, the questions can be more specific regarding pain management.

    Nobody is committing suicide. Do you understand that the human body can be kept alive a long time with feeding tubes and life support machines? That is prolonging a natural death--appropriate in certain situations, but in most natural death situations, the patient should decide how much or how little advanced medical care they want.

    But with advanced dementia or total incapacitation -- how can they do that? For the most part, we're talking about patients who are mostly non-responsive but can still chew and swallow there own food. Of course you feed them for as long as you can, but what do you when the can't chew and swallow. If there is no medical directive or family--then what else can a state run facility do? Feeding tube. Adult diapers.

    The most common natural death is pneumonia. You stop walking, liquid and bacteria form in your lungs, and the 'old person's friend', pneumonia, comes to visit. Now, a hospital can pump you full of antibiotics, lower the pain meds and do hourly breathing treatments so you can have a fighting chance. But what do you suppose happens to the brain during the long painful 'fight' with pneumonia, being deprived of oxygen between the breathing treatments? Mild dementia becomes advanced dementia. You can no longer control bodily functions or communicate, don't recognize anyone or know your name, but you 'beat' the pneumonia.

    Are you starting to understand the quality of life issues involved with natural death? Compassion. Dignity. Pain management. All according to the patient's wishes. Are you against that?
    I had a grandma that died from stomach cancer. She was the only person I know of in my life that could be labeled as perfect from what can be shown. I was there to council her. So was my dad. And my sisters. And a lot of her other family. She received care until she couldn't go on anymore. Her last words to me are the most inspirational I have. A councilor for our family would have been odd.

    Although I do feel for those who have no family and have absolutely none to talk to.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Id be happy if people did not have to go bankrupt over medical bills and then have the rest of us cover all those bills.
    Yes, if they can't pay their own bills, they can die.

    Works for me.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    This is the kind of fare they'll be playing in Messiah-Care waiting rooms:

    I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
    I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I said dead than wet my bed
    Oh, I'd rather be gone--Than carry on
    I'd rather go away--Than feel this way
    Oh, I'd rather be there--Where you haven't got a care
    And you're better off dead--Though it doesn't seem fair
    Oh, I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I'd rather be dead than wet than wet my bed
    I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I'd rather be dead than wet than wet my bed

    (Ladies)
    I'd rather keep my health--and dress myself
    But you're better off dead than sitting on a shelf

    (Men)I'll tie my tie 'till the day I die
    But if I have to be fed then I'd rather be dead

    And when he takes my hand on the very last day
    I will understand because it's better that way
    Oh! It's nice to be alive--When the dream comes true
    You'll be better off dead--It could happen to you
    Oh! I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I'd rather be dead than wet my bed
    I'd rather be dead--I'd rather be dead
    I'd rather be dead than wet than wet my bed

    - "I'd Rather Be Dead", Nilsson, Son of Schmillson.
    You get a thanks just for referencing a great album. "Joy" was my fav from it though.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    I had a grandma that died from stomach cancer. She was the only person I know of in my life that could be labeled as perfect from what can be shown. I was there to council her. So was my dad. And my sisters. And a lot of her other family. She received care until she couldn't go on anymore. Her last words to me are the most inspirational I have. A councilor for our family would have been odd.

    Although I do feel for those who have no family and have absolutely none to talk to.
    That's who the provision was for. It's not about burdening the state or society with an expensive prolonged death. It's about society reaching out in a sensible and compassionate way to those who have no one.

    With my grandmother, it was pancreatic cancer. She was in her own bed at home surround by her family when she took her final breath. The counseling and advice from the hospital 3 weeks prior was most welcome.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, if they can't pay their own bills, they can die.

    Works for me.
    Are you serious?

    Or just trying to be outrageous to get attention.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, if they can't pay their own bills, they can die.

    Works for me.
    So I guess you are in favor of death panels?

  9. #69
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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    In theory, I would think this saves more money than it costs. I suspect most people want a limit to how much care they are given while terminal and/or in a vegetative state, which is very expensive care.
    If anything, it will get this sort of crap out of our courts where it really has no right to be as it is. Clear, legal documentation of wants and desires will prevent for the most part associated end of life issues between families from backing up the judicial system.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If anything, it will get this sort of crap out of our courts where it really has no right to be as it is. Clear, legal documentation of wants and desires will prevent for the most part associated end of life issues between families from backing up the judicial system.
    Since when has legal documentation ever kept something out of the courts?

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