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Thread: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    My grandmother is 94 and she's ready to go. She's said she's ready. That's a decision for her to make, not the government. She has caring professionals to help her, too. Obviously, there's no need for this provision, as these services are already available.
    And guess what... the end-of-life provision had no baring on your grandmother... have you even read it?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Isaakson said that Section 1233 supported euthanizing elderly Americans?
    That statement is so disingenuous, I don't know where to begin.

    1) Issakson put the end-of-life provision in the Bill.

    2) The fruitcakes then scream that the provision is proof of Obama death camps.

    3) It is then brought up that it was a Republican provision.

    4) The fruitcakes then say "Tell me where Issakson ever said "Death Camps".

    5) But it was the fruitcakes that said "Death Camps", and now attempt to deflect the responsibility for "nuttiness" from themselves by asking others "Where did Issakson ever say that?".

    6) For the record, Issakson never said that. The deather fruitcakes did. When are they going to man up and admit they screwed up?
    Last edited by danarhea; 08-14-09 at 01:03 PM.
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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    I think we should euthanize several people....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And guess what... the end-of-life provision had no baring on your grandmother... have you even read it?
    Yes, I have read it and it doesn't have any baring on her, because she's fully prepared to check out. Were she willing to hang for a few more years, it would be a different story.


    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    That statement is so disingenuous, I don't know where to begin.

    1) Issakson put the end-of-life provision in the Bill.

    2) The fruitcakes then scream that the provision is proof of Obama death camps.

    3) It is then brought up that it was a Republican provision.

    4) The fruitcakes then say "Tell me where Issakson ever said "Death Camps".

    5) But it was the fruitcakes that said "Death Camps", and now attempt to deflect the responsibility for "nuttiness" from themselves by asking others to say "Where did Issakson ever say that?".

    6) For the record, Issakson never said that. The deather fruitcakes did. When are they going to man up and admit they screwed up?
    Link supporting your comments, please?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, I have read it and it doesn't have any baring on her, because she's fully prepared to check out. Were she willing to hang for a few more years, it would be a different story.




    Link supporting your comments, please?
    I thought you would never ask. I have been holding it back, just for you.

    Here is the interview of Johnny Issakson by the Washington Post.

    Court is adjourned.
    Last edited by danarhea; 08-14-09 at 01:09 PM.
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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, I have read it and it doesn't have any baring on her, because she's fully prepared to check out. Were she willing to hang for a few more years, it would be a different story.
    Then why exactly are you against it? Do people who have no insurance for whatever reason, do not deserve to have access to councilling and help if they are terminal?

    Let me guess.. you are one of those that would rather keep people alive as long as possible for any and all costs.. right?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    My grandmother is 94 and she's ready to go. She's said she's ready. That's a decision for her to make, not the government. She has caring professionals to help her, too. Obviously, there's no need for this provision, as these services are already available.
    No one's saying that the government would be making that decision.

    Look, folks. There are many people out there laying up in hospital beds who are on their last leg. We all know this. Some of these people require no additional extensive medical care (i.e., surgery) that will change the eneavitable. It's a harsh statement, but it's also the reality for some. They're just nothing can be done for them. But there are others who there IS a question as to what can and cannot be done to prolong their lives or atleast provide them with the best medical care and attention possible to make their final days as comfortable as possible.

    Currently, what we have are decisions ultimately being made between the hospital and the insurance company w/little regard (in some cases) for the concerns of the beloved family members. All this provision will do is give the caregivers (or the patient if there is no caregiver and the patient is still able to comprehend what's taking place on his or her behalf) the opportunity to discuss options in greater details possibly with a third party and have said counseling session paid for whereas currently there is no "outside second opinion". All "options" are strictly between the hospital (attending physician) and the insurance company. And that's it!

    My mother died of cancer earlier this year. It literally ate away at her from the inside. My siblings watched her die a slow death. (Because I am the only one of my sibling that's married w/children and my mother was hospitalized several states away, I could hardly afford to stay w/her over the extended time she was in the hospital until her death. It pains me til this day that I couldn't be with her in the end, but I know she was in good hands with my older sisters their comforting her.) Point here is we had very good and thorough counseling w/the medical staff and the Hospic agency to ensure my mother was properly cared for in her final days. Some people don't have that luxury.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-14-09 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I thought you would never ask. I have been holding it back, just for you.

    Here is the interview of Johnny Issakson by the Washington Post.

    Court is adjourned.
    So, you DON'T ahve anything to show all those Connies saying that the bill will put maw-maw down?


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Then why exactly are you against it? Do people who have no insurance for whatever reason, do not deserve to have access to councilling and help if they are terminal?
    1) This isn't a provision that provides for end of life counceling for those who want it. It mandates end of life counceling, want it, or not. If you'll notice in the bill, it specifically states that the secretary will issue and order to, "sustain life", should he deem it neccessary. It says that, read it.

    2) Why should there be a special provision for something that already exists, if in fact what you're saying is true and why is there only a provision for end of life care and nothing else?

    3) I don't think I should have the government digging in my pocket book to pay for nothing else but a giant entitlement program. The only people that are going to benefit from this bill are the Welfare Class. The rest of us are going to have to dig deep into our pockets to pay for it. Redistribution of wealth.

    Let me guess.. you are one of those that would rather keep people alive as long as possible for any and all costs.. right?

    Wrong. I believe that people should be able to make their own decisions, without government interfearence. That's my American side coming out. I don't expect you to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    you didn't understand, obviously. it's a shame, really. voluntary counseling sessions seem so, i don't know, unbelievably evil.

    wow.

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    Re: Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    No one's saying that the government would be making that decision.

    Look, folks. There are many people out there laying up in hospital beds who are on their last leg. We all know this. Some of these people require no additional extensive medical care (i.e., surgery) that will change the eneavitable. It's a harsh statement, but it's also the reality for some. They're just nothing can be done for them. But there are others who there IS a question as to what can and cannot be done to prolong their lives or atleast provide them with the best medical care and attention possible to make their final days as comfortable as possible.

    Currently, what we have are decisions ultimately being made between the hospital and the insurance company w/little regard (in some cases) for the concerns of the beloved family members. All this provision will do is give the caregivers (or the patient if there is no caregiver and the patient is still able to comprehend what's taking place on his or her behalf) the opportunity to discuss options in greater details possibly with a third party and have said counseling session paid for whereas currently there is no "outside second opinion". All "options" are strictly between the hospital (attending physician) and the insurance company. And that's it!

    My mother died of cancer earlier this year. It literally ate away at her from the inside. My siblings watched her die a slow death. (Because I am the only one of my sibling that's married w/children and my mother was hospitalized several states away, I could hardly afford to stay w/her over the extended time she was in the hospital until her death. It pains me til this day that I couldn't be with her in the end, but I know she was in good hands with my older sisters their comforting her.) Point here is we had very good and thorough counseling w/the medical staff and the Hospic agency to ensure my mother was properly cared for in her final days. Some people don't have that luxury.
    The bill says it. Check it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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