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Thread: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They dropped it, because they go caught with their hand in the cookie jar, not because the provision would be misinterpreted...LOL!!

    There's a bunch more crap in the bill that's going to have to go, before the heat will die down.
    What's this?

    The rabid Messianic-butt-kissing Leftist socialist freedom grabbers were saying all the people opposed to the healthcare industry theft by their Messiah were crazy and liars because there were no "kill granny" provisions in this bill.

    How could the committee drop those provisions if they weren't in there?

    Doesn't that mean the people opposed to the bill on the basis of the existence of the "kill granny" provisions were ....ahem...RIGHT?

    And WHY should we trust people who can put such a thing in a bill to refrain from sneaking it in later, if we were foolish enough to allow the bill to pass in any form at all?

    All the flaming leftards owe the Americans an abject apology.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    One of the Prof's summer school co-eds obviously bribed him with some hash brownies.

    What's with the beat poetry, Prof? Interesting, but doesn't really add a lot to the discussion. Here's one for ya:

    some of e. e. cummings

    work had

    depth.

    some Not have.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What's this?

    The rabid Messianic-butt-kissing Leftist socialist freedom grabbers were saying all the people opposed to the healthcare industry theft by their Messiah were crazy and liars because there were no "kill granny" provisions in this bill.

    How could the committee drop those provisions if they weren't in there?

    Doesn't that mean the people opposed to the bill on the basis of the existence of the "kill granny" provisions were ....ahem...RIGHT?

    And WHY should we trust people who can put such a thing in a bill to refrain from sneaking it in later, if we were foolish enough to allow the bill to pass in any form at all?

    All the flaming leftards owe the Americans an abject apology.

    They got caught with their asses hangin' in the breeze. What's one to say.

    I'm anxiously awaiting someone to refute my posts with information that comes from the actual bill. I'll probably be old enough for the death panel by the time we see any of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Seriously, what is it with you hard core right wingers. You took a provision that would have done nothing more than paid physicians for the time they spent with Medicare recipients discussing end of life issues and turned that into government "death panels" deciding who will live and who will die.

    First off, the only occasion I can think of off of the top of my head where the federal government attempted to involved itself in the end of life decisions of a private individual was when the Republicans did it with Terri Schiavo, the brain dead woman in Florida.
    Well, welcome to Messiah-care, where Womb-to-Tomb takes on a whole new meaning.


    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    However, more to the point, if someone was to actually believe that the federal government would institute government death panels that would essentially weed out unproductive seniors, then they would have to believe that Washington Democrats and President Obama are quite literally on the same level with Joesph Stalin.
    You mean we'd have to believe that the political party that demands that absolutely no limits should be placed on the murder of a child by it's mother, including the unrestricted use of Intact D&C, better and more descriptively known as Partial Birth Abortion, would EVER consider greasing the skids for the Alzheimer people?

    Noooo.....of courrrse we'd have to be honest if we considered that possible.

    And we all know that the people who voted for the Messiah have a headlock on honesty, and they're not going to let it get away from them, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Aside from being offensive, its irrational to the point of being truly psychotic.
    And so completely consistent with history and human nature.

    Is Messiah-care going to have an infinite budget? No? Then rationing has to happen somewhere.

    Do address that reality someday, if you people will let honesty catch it's breath for a little while.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Seriously, you guys have taken a guy that is by all accounts a decent man,
    Decent men do not sit in Rev. Wright's church for twenty years.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    a good husband, and a wonderful father and turned him into Joesph Stalin, an unconscionable sociopathic dictator out to murder your grandparents and sick children......... All because you disagree with him.
    Yeah, a better reason to do that is understanding the reality of the socialism he's pushing. It never ends well.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Bad ideas does not equal evil person.
    Sure they do.

    A bad idea is sniffing your tail pipe.

    An evil person hooks the tailpipe up to the cargo section of the bus to speed up the cleansing process of Eastern Europe in 1939.

    Another evil person will confiscate the national health care system and blame the deaths caused by the inevitable rationing on the bureaucrats.

    Basicly, you can't claim your Messiah is both super-intelligent and completely ignorant. But that's what you're arguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    If this health care debate has accomplished anything, its demonstrated how much we have neglected mental health care in this country as its truly an epidemic right now. Seriously, if you think that Obama is on the level of Joesph Stalin, and with this loony death panel bull**** you obviously do, then you need to check with your insurance providers and see which anti-psychotics are on the coverage list for you.
    So once again the left resorts to ad hominem attacks....oh, and you'll notice that 0.1T of last years deficit under Bush came about as a result of the Democrats taking a completely irrelevant mental health provision onto the so-called emergeny bank bailout. So the Democrats should be able to get all the shink-time they need for their incurable guilt problems.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    One of the Prof's summer school co-eds obviously bribed him with some hash brownies.

    What's with the beat poetry, Prof? Interesting, but doesn't really add a lot to the discussion. Here's one for ya:

    some of e. e. cummings

    work had

    depth.

    some Not have.
    health care's dead

    the president is the fastest LOSER in american history

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    nice play, my friend!!!
    The entire full text of the bill in question is here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-1200

    You will notice that evil government death panels are no where in it. Just like no where in it is there a provision that allows the government to remove your right eye and implant it in your cod sack. Nor is there a provision that would bring back frontal lobotomies for extremist loons so folks like Palin and Glen Beck can breath a sigh of relief there too.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 08-13-09 at 08:31 PM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    health care's dead

    the president is the fastest LOSER in american history
    Nope.

    It's the seventh inning stretch

    and everyone has gone for a pee

    there's been some angry words thrown about

    drunks in the bathroom and all

    but cooler, smarter heads will prevail.

    A little forced compassion for those making $320K

    They have to fly coach to Aspen

    teenage daughter so embarrassed

    she wants to die

    good thing psychiatric care is covered in the cadillac plan

    Dr. feelsogood gets her preggers

    baby covered in the plan, yippee.

    Daddy indicted for tax evasion

    mommy starts to drink

    daughter strips because she misses daddy

    baby gets sick, no money, no health plan at strip joint

    medicare! baby going to live.

    mommy go to rehab.

    Thank you, Mr. Pres.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The entire full text of the bill in question is here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-1200

    You will notice that evil government death panels are no where in it. Just like no where in it is there a provision that allows the government to remove your right eye and implant it in your cod sack. Nor is there a provision that would bring back frontal lobotomies for extremist loons so folks like Palin and Glen Beck can breath a sigh of relief there too.
    Read Section 1233, on page 839 (I think that's the right page). While it doesn't actually say, "death panel", is clearly spells out how the so called elderly end of life counceling compensation for doctors was intended to work.

    Bottom line: the Dems got caught in a big, big lie and now they have to perform damage control.
    Last edited by apdst; 08-13-09 at 09:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Nope.

    It's the seventh inning stretch

    and everyone has gone for a pee

    there's been some angry words thrown about

    drunks in the bathroom and all

    but cooler, smarter heads will prevail.

    A little forced compassion for those making $320K

    They have to fly coach to Aspen

    teenage daughter so embarrassed

    she wants to die

    good thing psychiatric care is covered in the cadillac plan

    Dr. feelsogood gets her preggers

    baby covered in the plan, yippee.

    Daddy indicted for tax evasion

    mommy starts to drink

    daughter strips because she misses daddy

    baby gets sick, no money, no health plan at strip joint

    medicare! baby going to live.

    mommy go to rehab.

    Thank you, Mr. Pres.
    nonsense

    and kinda sick---the kiddie porn images

    health care's dead, sorry

    it died when baucus first bawled in the gateway---back to the drawing board

    that was mere days before elmendorf's critical testimony concerning the cost curve, elicited in committee by kent conrad, july 16

    the next day the prez called his emergency presser and claimed he'd found 2/3 of the cost in a box ted kennedy, apparently, could never find

    it was tortured in the house

    bluedogs and progressives in rangel's committee and more particularly amongst waxman's group have just tormented it

    daschle's declaration more than a month ago that the "public option was dead" was a big moment

    daschle was gonna be the prez' missionary on meds, had the former senate leader paid his taxes

    but when durbin did what he did on sunday (cnn's john king), that was IT

    sorry

    the white house signalled surrender on the "public option"

    now they're playing for the purple co op in the portal (senate finance)

    that'd be grassley, enzi and snowe

    that's why obama called out the trio in portsmouth---grassley, enzi and snowe

    and examining the posture of the ranking member yesterday...

    everything that's gone on in pelosi's place (the house) is kaput

    ask durbin

    ask baucus

    ask elmendorf

    ask ms mccaskill, who insisted in hillsboro august 11 (just minutes after obama's michael jackson lookalike at portsmouth)

    ms mccaskill INSISTED before HER gymnasium of more AVERAGE americans

    LOLOL!

    she PLEDGED---no one's even TALKING ABOUT a public option, it's NOT ON THE TABLE, she's URGING

    what? i don't understand this room, she says

    you really think you're pursuading people by shouting out like that?

    you don't trust me?

    you want me to go home?

    ask ms mccaskill about the public option, hazlnut

    SHE vowed SHE'd never SIGN one

    1. you need to get a tv and watch it

    2. you need to focus on events in washingon, in committee and in places like hillsboro more

    3. while worrying less perhaps about the styles of other posters (tho i'm flattered)
    Last edited by The Prof; 08-13-09 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Read Section 1233, on page 839 (I think that's the right page). While it doesn't actually say, "death panel", is clearly spells out how the so called elderly end of life counceling compensation for doctors was intended to work.

    Bottom line: the Dems got caught in a big, big lie and now they have to perform damage control.

    Here is the section you are referring to:

    (hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

    ‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.
    ‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
    ‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
    ‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
    9
    ‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.
    ‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--
    ‘(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual’s family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;
    ‘(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and
    ‘(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).
    ‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement for explanations under clause (i) to consultations furnished in a State--
    ‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining treatment to constitute a set of medical orders respected across all care settings; and
    ‘(II) that has in effect a program for orders for life sustaining treatment described in clause (iii).
    ‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining treatment for a States described in this clause is a program that--
    ‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
    ‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such orders to physicians and other health professionals that (acting within the scope of the professional’s authority under State law) may sign orders for life sustaining treatment;
    ‘(III) provides training for health care professionals across the continuum of care about the goals and use of orders for life sustaining treatment; and
    ‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stakeholders includes representatives from emergency medical services, emergency department physicians or nurses, state long-term care association, state medical association, state surveyors, agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association, and state hospice association.


    Read, read it aloud if it helps it sink in, no where in that section is there anything remotely described like a government death panel deciding who lives and who dies.

    It is just like I described it earlier, nothing but a provision for physicians, specifically doctors or nurse practitioners to be paid for time they spend discussing medical end of life issues with a patient. It then states that any consultation they are given must fall under the guidelines of the state laws the physician practices in. Thats all it does. In fact, it will only pay for such a consultation with your physician once every 5 years.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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