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Thread: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    I dress the same in foreign countries as I dress in the US--including Muslim areas. I wear skirts and tops that are easy to wash. I don't wear a veil. I wear a shawl sometimes if its cool.

    I wear pants for climbing and hiking.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 08-14-09 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I can't believe the irony of forcing women to wear certain clothes to free them from being forced to wear certain clothes. How stupid can a concept get?
    Indeed.
    Banning is not freedom.
    It is the entire opposite.


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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I think it is highly amusing people who have most likely never worn one before seek to cast judgement of the minds of other women.
    I need to change myself into a woman and then wear a burqa before I am qualified to post an illustration of a concept from U.S. history? You certainly do set the bar high, don't you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Is it so hard to accept that some wear it out of choice?
    Inside the West Muslim women have much more liberty than Muslim countries.
    Inside some Muslim countries there is no choice but to wear it so it can be oppression, but can the same be said for the West? No.
    Lost in all this conversation is the fact that this women is a recent CONVERT to Islam, and so yes, obviously her adoption of such a garment is by choice. It was certainly her choice to make this very aggressive, in-your-face symbolic gesture.

    As for women who were actually rasied Muslim, the fact that they now live in the west is less important than the social networks that surround them. If they do not speak French, live in a ghettoized situation and are surrounded by compatriots almost exclusively, then French law or customs do not enter into their day to day decision making. In fact, the very act of wearing the Burqa (or niqab) is indication that they ARE NOT connected to French society. As such, whatever pressures that are being applied to them to wear such garments need to be taken into consideration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    It is not a religious obligation.
    You should try telling this to the woman in question who is using the wearing of a burkini as a political weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Government and State needs to stop getting involved in such matters.
    Systematic oppression is one matter in which any liberal, western democracy SHOULD be involved. Telling this overzealous convert she cannot wear something may not be the best approach, but until such a time arises that women from Islamic countries achieve true parity, the struggle will continue.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post

    Lost in all this conversation is the fact that this women is a recent CONVERT to Islam, and so yes, Telling this overzealous convert she cannot wear something may not be the best approach, but until such a time arises that women from Islamic countries achieve true parity, the struggle will continue.
    So what are you saying? She's not a real enough Muslim for you? The gov't gets to make that distinction about someone's faith?
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    France has always had a limited commitment to free expression. Yes, France is a democracy, but without some of the commitment to essential human liberties.

    Stupidity.

    What will this accomplish, except to further alienate and enrage the already alienated and enraged? Far better would be to shut down the schools that are teaching hate to school children. This is a superficial response, at best. The only way to integrate these immigrants is through education and support.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-14-09 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I keep bringing up this point in similar threads, but banning these garments from public places is not going to make these women stop wearing them. They'll simply avoid going to those places and stay home. Maybe that's what these stupid rules are after, eh? Out of sight and out of mind?

    The young woman in the in the OP, a French native who freely converted and chooses to wear these outfits, made it clear that she would rather leave her own country than be forced to dress in ways she disaproves of.

    I can't believe the irony of forcing women to wear certain clothes to free them from being forced to wear certain clothes. How stupid can a concept get?

    I completely agree, though I do believe that Muslim women are suppressed. However, it's up to them to change things, not any government.
    Last edited by Middleground; 08-14-09 at 11:52 AM.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I completely agree, though I do believe that Muslim women are surpressed. However, it's up to them to change things, not any government.
    The government can work to improve things in other ways, such as requiring recent immigrants to take language and culture classes, and requiring them to educate their children in public schools. Immigrants can be required to do all sorts of things in order to immigrate, and if France wants to maintain a national identity, they should focus on teaching immigrants to be French, rather than trying to dictate clothing choices.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Systematic oppression is one matter in which any liberal, western democracy SHOULD be involved. Telling this overzealous convert she cannot wear something may not be the best approach, but until such a time arises that women from Islamic countries achieve true parity, the struggle will continue.
    The west or 'liberal western democracies' has no right to get involved in what a person wears nor should it ban. EVER.

    How a person chooses to express one self is their own business.
    And the west shouldn't stick it nose in to this 'struggle'. Let the Muslim countries deal with it on their own.


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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I completely agree, though I do believe that Muslim women are suppressed. However, it's up to them to change things, not any government.
    Education would work better than 'ban ---'


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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Coming into this late...

    I recall reading about a time when bikinis would be considered obscene in even Europe, and yet now excessive modesty is considered oppressive. I understood the burka thing more, but a swimming pool is different.

    Also... what hygiene concerns?

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