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Thread: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

  1. #231
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You'll notice that I argue against a wide variety of those laws.
    Yes, I've noticed that it was probably our only big disagreement!

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    The government sets a moral standard in society, to keep it civilized, whether you care, or agree or not. Thats why drugs are outlawed, polygamy, incest, etc. Whether you care of not is irrelevant. These measures are simply being taken to stop the growth of a radical interpretation of Islam and the preservation of a native culture.
    There are many laws I don't believe are proper realm for federal government, including drugs. I also think things like prostitution should be legal as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Yet, you are okay with this? It infringes on your rights, does it?
    Specifically for cousins, you have a fairly good biological reason to keep that illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Its the governments right from a "they are obliged to do such things" stand point.
    Government has no rights, it only has duty and obligation granted to it by the People of that government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #233
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Thats my point. It only takes one EU country to bring in a horde of Muslims, and then they go about in EU countries spreading like wildfire (inter EU immigration standards are set by the EU and those standards are not tough enough).
    So you actually want a unified EU policy on this?... does that not go against your EU hatred?
    PeteEU

  4. #234
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you actually want a unified EU policy on this?... does that not go against your EU hatred?
    Since when was any EU policy unified? It enforces it, and we must comply. And on your comment about the EU not having an immigration system; they elites recently made an agreement with Turkey that the Turks can live and work anywhere within Europe without a Visa. When did the candidate countries agree to this? Oh, never!

    This is what happens when you get federal expansionism taking over sovereign. Expect a lot more Turks looting and rioting in Denmark shortly.

    Turkish citizens arrive in UK without visa - Hürriyet Daily News and Economic Review

    Yaaayy!

    EDIT: I dont want the destruction of the EU. I just want it to go back to its original intentions; a common market with some market integration (and only the very neccessary ones like removal of trade barriers etc). Its turned into a huge cultural experimental mess gone wrong. Now we are accepting members only on the bases of them being "completely culturally European" instead of asking ourselves "what can there market offer us and will it be healthy for the union?". Can you see what it has become? Its almost like candidacy and acceptance is based on racial and cultural qualities rather than economic qualities and thats just sad. If the EU nations cant make tougher immigration policies, than i believe the EU should scrap free inter-continental movement all together. Its one or the other.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-20-09 at 07:57 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  5. #235
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are many laws I don't believe are proper realm for federal government, including drugs. I also think things like prostitution should be legal as well.
    But they are not because again, the government has a duty to provide some moral insight into society. Its evidently clear in some places our idea of moral is differing, but on a general scale of things i can see why prostitution is illegal and don't get me started on drugs ffs.



    Government has no rights, it only has duty and obligation granted to it by the People of that government.
    No, the constitution gives the government legal legitimate validation in state affairs, and gives the government its duties and its obligations. By constitution, ruling the state gives them the ability to introduce, take away or even modify laws and policies in accordance with the wants of the people (in many cases, or at least the wants of congress/parliament which claims to be the voice of the people).
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-20-09 at 07:51 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  6. #236
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    But they are not because again, the government has a duty to provide some moral insight into society. Its evidently clear in some places our idea of moral is differing, but on a general scale of things i can see why prostitution is illegal and don't get me started on drugs ffs.
    They're illegal because the government grabbed the power and won't let it go. It's not proper realm for the federal government to legislate these things, they weren't given that power.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    No, the constitution gives the government legal legitimate validation in state affairs, and gives the government its duties and its obligations. By constitution, ruling the state gives them the ability to introduce, take away or even modify laws and policies in accordance with the wants of the people (in many cases, or at least the wants of congress/parliament which claims to be the voice of the people).
    The Constitution grants duties and responsibilities, limited duties and responsibilities, to the government by the power of the People. The government has no innate authority, power, or sovereignty. Everything it wields it wields because the People have granted it. The Constitution is a restricting document authorizing the federal government with only a small amount of select power and appropriating that power through the many branches. Just government works within the confines of that contract. Unjust government expands and takes power not relegated to it by the People. The government cannot rightfully make laws which infringe upon the rights and liberties of the People.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #237
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They're illegal because the government grabbed the power and won't let it go. It's not proper realm for the federal government to legislate these things, they weren't given that power.
    Perhaps you are right ONLY under the bases your constitiution forbids such powers to the federal government. Otherwise, we are not talking about America here, or a federal government, this is France. And either way, your state government will do it, if not the federal government.



    The Constitution grants duties and responsibilities, limited duties and responsibilities, to the government by the power of the People.
    In what sense?

    The government has no innate authority, power, or sovereignty. Everything it wields it wields because the People have granted it.
    Rubbish. The government can do whatever it likes without giving a two sh1ts about what the people think. If they can pass it in congress and have a way of winning the next election, there sweet.


    The Constitution is a restricting document authorizing the federal government with only a small amount of select power and appropriating that power through the many branches. Just government works within the confines of that contract. Unjust government expands and takes power not relegated to it by the People. The government cannot rightfully make laws which infringe upon the rights and liberties of the People.
    Yes it can. Hate speech, for one. State of emergency, as another example. It may not be what your constitution advocates, but does that make a difference these days? Look what Obama is doing. What has he done thats consitutional...ever? The government will and can restrict certain rights as a compromise if it ensures the safety and preservation of the native peoples from those radicals unwilling to integrate. That is the governments obligation to the state.

    Again, stop dragging the US into it.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-20-09 at 08:04 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  8. #238
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Perhaps you are right ONLY under the bases your constitiution forbids such powers to the federal government. Otherwise, we are not talking about America here, or a federal government, this is France. And either way, your state government will do it, if not the federal government.
    Well France can do as they like. I find what they are doing to be a sickening act against the rights and liberties of a portion of their populace brought out by xenophobia and an unwillingness to allow a certain sector of their population integrate into French society. But that's their treason and not my concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    In what sense?
    In the absolute sense. Governments have no rights and no power unto themselves. Everything they have has been granted. The People hold all power and soveriegnty and it is by that power and soveriegnty that a government may justly operate. Governments are not appointed by gods or lineage, but rather by the will and consent of the People.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Rubbish. The government can do whatever it likes without giving a two sh1ts about what the people think. If they can pass it in congress and have a way of winning the next election, there sweet.
    That's great opinion if treason and tyranny are your goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Yes it can. Hate speech, for one. State of emergency, as another example. It may not be what your constitution advocates, but does that make a difference these days? Look what Obama is doing. What has he done thats consitutional...ever? The government will and can restrict certain rights as a compromise if it ensures the safety and preservation of the native peoples from those radicals unwilling to integrate.
    Nothing says that the government cannot act improperly, but it should be noted that it is improper behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Again, stop dragging the US into it.
    Proper government is not limited to the United States.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #239
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well France can do as they like. I find what they are doing to be a sickening act against the rights and liberties of a portion of their populace brought out by xenophobia and an unwillingness to allow a certain sector of their population integrate into French society. But that's their treason and not my concern.
    I see it as a step towards allowing there integration better. Its a radical sect of Islam and to be quiet frank it will send a message across and hopefully either make them change there ways and integrate with the French society better or make them leave the country. Either way works fine for us. There is a huge integration issue here in Europe and if we don't work to stem it now it will lead to our down fall. The French approach may seem harsh, but its necessary in keeping the native culture intact and that is Sarkozy's obligation to his country.



    In the absolute sense. Governments have no rights and no power unto themselves. Everything they have has been granted. The People hold all power and soveriegnty and it is by that power and soveriegnty that a government may justly operate. Governments are not appointed by gods or lineage, but rather by the will and consent of the People.
    Thats what you like to think. Your right about the government technically having no power but, it has to be granted by a parliament/congress, and thats where the governments power is controlled. But do you think parliament represents the people as well as it could? Of course not. It would be physically impossible and politically impossible to put everything to popular vote, but until then i disagree with the notion they need consent of the people.

    That's great opinion if treason and tyranny are your goal.
    No, its political tactics and the Americans have been at it ever since Clinton. Im not talking major violation of our rights or the consitution, but small violations and restrictions here and there.

    Nothing says that the government cannot act improperly, but it should be noted that it is improper behavior.
    Sometimes it is neccessary for the government to inact improperly by restricting our freedoms for the betting of our society. Ask me to think of an example and ill say none because im a capitalist and i find it totally unacceptable, but i can justify it in this case.



    Proper government is not limited to the United States.
    How can you even compare? Everything in Europe is far more centralized, and has nothing to do with federated governments.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-20-09 at 08:38 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  10. #240
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Not a burkini story, but thought I'd put it in here:

    The Associated Press: Swiss basketball body forbids Muslim headscarf

    REITNAU, Switzerland — A Muslim woman has been told by Swiss basketball authorities she can't wear a headscarf when she plays in league games.
    Sura Al-Shawk, a 19-year-old Swiss citizen of Iraqi origin, is to debut in a regional women's league when the season starts next month. Her team, STV Luzern, sought permission for her to wear the scarf.
    As much as I disagree with banning burkinis, I have no real problem with this one. The regulations are pretty clear and forbid religious displays. If religion is more important, she'll have to find another sport that doesn't create a conflict like this.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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