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Thread: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

  1. #221
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Do you also consider the ban on polygamy as being a breach to freedom & liberty?
    I would had it not been so early adopted by the United States as being a condition of joining the Union. I don't personally really care about polygamists so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would had it not been so early adopted by the United States as being a condition of joining the Union. I don't personally really care about polygamists so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others.
    You do know, the fact that is doesn't infringe upon your own rights isn't a sufficient enough argument to legalize it. Fact is, from a moral view point, its wrong, thats why the law is there and in place, and if that doesn't sway your opinion, its to stop these conservative Christians and Muslims force marrying off there daughters to there cousins etc. In that respect, it has worked successfully, and so will the ban on the Bhurka. It is the sole right of the French government to preserve its culture, and if these people refuse to integrate, they become a burden to the native culture and so its up to the state to act accordingly and i believe this is a sufficient response.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  3. #223
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    It is the sole right of the French government to preserve its culture, and if these people refuse to integrate, they become a burden to the native culture and so its up to the state to act accordingly and i believe this is a sufficient response.
    Maybe they should consider adjusting their immigration policies rather than imposing odious clothing bans.

  4. #224
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Maybe they should consider adjusting their immigration policies rather than imposing odious clothing bans.
    Exactly. But god forbid should Sarkozy realize the EU's immigration system, if not the EU in its entirety, is flawed.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    You do know, the fact that is doesn't infringe upon your own rights isn't a sufficient enough argument to legalize it.
    That's where I stop caring. If someone is not infringing upon the rights of others, I don't care what they do. Government is not a source of morals, nor should it ever be viewed as such. And the government has no place in regulating religions and their populations if those individuals are not infringing upon the rights of other people. Just a note, we have specific laws about marrying your cousin, so we don't need to use the government against religion to accomplish those means, you should look into it. It all ends there. Polygamy I personally do not care about, but there is precedent against it in this country. Que sera sera.

    Also, one last thing. Governments do not have rights, only individuals have rights.
    Last edited by Ikari; 08-20-09 at 05:21 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Exactly. But god forbid should Sarkozy realize the EU's immigration system, if not the EU in its entirety, is flawed.
    There aint no EU immigration system. It is still the job of the member nations to set their own immigration laws and systems.
    PeteEU

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There aint no EU immigration system. It is still the job of the member nations to set their own immigration laws and systems.
    Thats my point. It only takes one EU country to bring in a horde of Muslims, and then they go about in EU countries spreading like wildfire (inter EU immigration standards are set by the EU and those standards are not tough enough).
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  8. #228
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's where I stop caring. If someone is not infringing upon the rights of others, I don't care what they do. Government is not a source of morals, nor should it ever be viewed as such. And the government has no place in regulating religions and their populations if those individuals are not infringing upon the rights of other people.
    The government sets a moral standard in society, to keep it civilized, whether you care, or agree or not. Thats why drugs are outlawed, polygamy, incest, etc. Whether you care of not is irrelevant. These measures are simply being taken to stop the growth of a radical interpretation of Islam and the preservation of a native culture.

    Just a note, we have specific laws about marrying your cousin,
    Yet, you are okay with this? It infringes on your rights, does it?


    Also, one last thing. Governments do not have rights, only individuals have rights.
    Its the governments right from a "they are obliged to do such things" stand point.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  9. #229
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would had it not been so early adopted by the United States as being a condition of joining the Union. I don't personally really care about polygamists so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others.
    there are still many laws forbiding things that don't really infringe upon the rights of other people, think about all the things that are "against the public order"

    I think the state has a role to preserve the values and the moral of its society. That may evolve, like now we accept divorce much more easily than before, we accept homosexuality, we have laws allowing gays to adopt kids, laws allowing people to get an abortion, laws allowing people to be euthanasied, laws allowing people to change sex etc...it depends on the society. And it looks like most European societies are not ready to accept the Burqa and the Burqini. If you could read the reactions in the newspapers, 90% of the people applaud the Italian mayor.
    Last edited by bub; 08-20-09 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    there are still many laws forbiding things that don't really infringe upon the rights of other people, think about all the things that are "against the public order"

    I think the state has a role to preserve the values and the moral of its society
    You'll notice that I argue against a wide variety of those laws.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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