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Thread: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

  1. #191
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The Italian press is reporting a similar story today. A young Muslim woman in Verona showed up at a swimming pool in one of these "burkini" suits and created quite a stir. Moms complained that she was freaking out their children.
    Anyway, the pool supervisor asked her to let him know what exactly the suit was made of before he made any decisions on whether to allow it or not. This is the way the French pool should have handled things.
    They've banned it today

    The argument of the mayor is that tolerance should not always be one-sided: if a Western woman goes to Saudi Arabia in a bikini, she's gonne be stoned or beheaded. If the burkini-woman dislikes that, she can go bath in her bathroom.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    They've banned it today

    The argument of the mayor is that tolerance should not always be one-sided: if a Western woman goes to Saudi Arabia in a bikini, she's gonne be stoned or beheaded. If the burkini-woman dislikes that, she can go bath in her bathroom.
    So tyranny should be met with tyranny? Nice. "Well so and so does X, so I'm gonna do X". How stupid. So a dumb ass country has dumb ass laws, does that mean we have to have dumb ass laws? How the **** does that help anything? If the goal is freedom, you cannot make treasonous laws, especially xenophobic laws which target a specific subsector of your population. WTF is that about?

    Seriously, did the mayor think about what he said there? Claiming that because they do something horrific in some other country that they should do something idiotic and against the rights of the individual in their own country is not reasonable or logical in the least.
    Last edited by Ikari; 08-19-09 at 01:03 PM.
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  3. #193
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    They've banned it today

    The argument of the mayor is that tolerance should not always be one-sided: if a Western woman goes to Saudi Arabia in a bikini, she's gonne be stoned or beheaded. If the burkini-woman dislikes that, she can go bath in her bathroom.
    Not the same case. The one I was referring to was in Veneto, this one is in Piemonte. I'm not surprised that guy would ban it and even threaten to fine people 500 euros if they don't comply. What else do you expect from the retards at Lega Nord? For those not familiar with Italian politics, they're more or less the equivalent of the British BNP.
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So tyranny should be met with tyranny? Nice. "Well so and so does X, so I'm gonna do X". How stupid. So a dumb ass country has dumb ass laws, does that mean we have to have dumb ass laws? How the **** does that help anything? If the goal is freedom, you cannot make treasonous laws, especially xenophobic laws which target a specific subsector of your population. WTF is that about?

    Seriously, did the mayor think about what he said there? Claiming that because they do something horrific in some other country that they should do something idiotic and against the rights of the individual in their own country is not reasonable or logical in the least.
    Well the argument is not so bad: there is no reciprocity, so why should we allow something here that would not be tolerated in their country?
    As long as he's not talking about jailing them or deporting them for that, it's ok.

    We don't have to tolerate all their customs for the sake of freedom. A limit has to be placed: we forbid polygamy and honor crimes, why not the burkini? If we are not clear enough with these limits, then they start imposing their own customs. For example, most of the schools in Brussels serve Halal food only, which is a scandal. If we take the example of swimming pools, the ones in Brussels are "for women only" every saturday morning! And if you're a women, don't even think about wearing a miniskirt in certain districts of Brussels, you'd be insulted or assaulted.

    I think that when our values are not compatible with theirs, ours should have the priority. They are immigrants, they have to adapt, they're not in their country. When you go to your neighbor house and that he doesn't smoke, you don't smoke neither. It's the same at the scale of countries: if people here are shocked by polygamy, people walking naked in the streets or wearing a Burqa, then they have to obey or go back to their country if they don't like that.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    That's just silly right there. Freedom and liberty are everything, to strive for these is the goal of all freemen. Now you want to say that other places don't respect our cultures, and thus when they're here we don't have to respect theirs...I think that's dumb. Certainly there are degrees of inclusion and melding into our cultures so we keep ours but include others (France, BTW, definitely doesn't do this, they purposefully discriminate against their Muslim people and exclude them from their own culture). There are certainly some customs from other places which infringe upon the rights of people and we can't allow those. Fine, there are reasonable things to do. The "burkini" isn't one of them.

    We live in the Western nations, we're the most advanced. People who grow up in our cultures and countries have everything they need to make informed decisions for themselves. It's not the Middle East where theocracy reigns and people are forced through government law to obey the "religion". Here people are free, they live their religions and understand them and express them and that's perfectly fine. The burkini isn't a sign of oppression or whatever you want to claim it is, someone made the choice to wear it. It's a swimming suit with a hood. We're not talking about stoning a girl to death for having been raped. We're talking about a swimming suit with a hood on it. There's nothing wrong with wearing it, if people want to make the decision to wear it than more power to them. Who am I to say no? Maybe in your country y'all have different ideals, but in my country religion is a right as is expression of it. I won't endorse xenophobic laws which act counter to freedom and liberty.
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  6. #196
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Assimilation does not mean the root culture goes unchanged - it always calls for a blending of cultures and a mutual tolerance.

    If we were talking about wearing actual burqas to public schools or for driver's license photos, that is one thing. We're not even talking about burqas, for chrissakes, like ikari says: 'it's a bathing suit with a hood on it.'

    The passage of this law is a farce and only serves to make the community look foolish.
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    The "no reciprocity" argument is rather silly and petty. The majority of Muslim countries DO allow western style clothing and swimwear on their beaches.
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The "no reciprocity" argument is rather silly and petty. The majority of Muslim countries DO allow western style clothing and swimwear on their beaches.
    Many in Brussels don't

  9. #199
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Many in Brussels don't
    Are we talking about foolish individuals or are we talking about government policies?
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We live in the Western nations, we're the most advanced. People who grow up in our cultures and countries have everything they need to make informed decisions for themselves. It's not the Middle East where theocracy reigns and people are forced through government law to obey the "religion". Here people are free, they live their religions and understand them and express them and that's perfectly fine.
    The problem is when people import their theocracy in our countries. I'm serious, most people here are atheists and very liberal, and tensions are expectable when people who think like our great-grand-parents settle here.


    The burkini isn't a sign of oppression or whatever you want to claim it is, someone made the choice to wear it.
    You're kidding? It's the visible symbol of the ultra-conservatism of some people. Banning it won't solve the root of the problem, but at least it shows them that traditional-very conservative people are not welcome.


    Who am I to say no? Maybe in your country y'all have different ideals, but in my country religion is a right as is expression of it.
    In my country religion is a private matter and we consider that you should not wear external signs of faith. We've removed the crosses from our schools and courts, we can expect newcomers not to do the contrary. A swimming pool is a public place, religion has nothing to do there.

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