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Thread: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

  1. #131
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    As far as I know those burkas, durkas or whatever were made in order to cover the woman's body so she wouldn't attract Muslim males.

    Care to elaborate as to how this symbolizes choice?
    Well, the burka serves a dual function of protection from the elements and covering up bits that they don't want just anyone to see. We have a similar custom here in America which we call clothing.

    Now some women choose to dress in a fashion that is more revealing than others, often intentionally made to be provocative to men. Now there are many other women who choose to dress much less provocatively because they don't want to look like a slut.

    The thing is that dressing like a slut is a relative concept. In America, someone who wears fishnets, ridiculously high heels and a too short miniskirt is generally considered to be dressed like a slut even though all of her bits are covered.

    In a nudist colony someone wearing much less would not be considered a slut, so in order to dress like a slut in a nudist colony, a girl would have to paint the words "insert here" on her body with a arrow indicating the point of insertion.

    To a woman who perceives her hair as being a very sensual part of her body that she doesn't want men ogling at, she might wear a burka in order to not feel like she is dressed in a slutty fashion.

    A law forcing a woman to show off her hair is no more justified than a law forcing women to show off their tits.

  2. #132
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Well, the burka serves a dual function of protection from the elements and covering up bits that they don't want just anyone to see. We have a similar custom here in America which we call clothing.

    Now some women choose to dress in a fashion that is more revealing than others, often intentionally made to be provocative to men. Now there are many other women who choose to dress much less provocatively because they don't want to look like a slut.

    The thing is that dressing like a slut is a relative concept. In America, someone who wears fishnets, ridiculously high heels and a too short miniskirt is generally considered to be dressed like a slut even though all of her bits are covered.

    In a nudist colony someone wearing much less would not be considered a slut, so in order to dress like a slut in a nudist colony, a girl would have to paint the words "insert here" on her body with a arrow indicating the point of insertion.

    To a woman who perceives her hair as being a very sensual part of her body that she doesn't want men ogling at, she might wear a burka in order to not feel like she is dressed in a slutty fashion.

    A law forcing a woman to show off her hair is no more justified than a law forcing women to show off their tits.
    great point!

    But with the same argument: certain ways to dress are considered as shocking and are forbidden (for example: nudity). Why couldn't the Burqa & Burkini be forbidden on the same ground?

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    when you immigrate to a country you accept the customs of this country.

    In France, men are equal to women and people are free. Therefore, bans on burqas and burkini (which symbolize oppression of women and submission to traditions) are justified.

    There is another custom that says that people can't walk naked in the street, or that you can't swim naked in public swiming pools. Same principle.
    People keep calling it oppression, but there is a choice to wear it and she made that decision. It wasn't forced or anything, she wanted to wear it. Who are you to say that someone can't wear a swimsuit with a hood?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    In too many cases, they are imposed

    and even when they are "chosen" it still symbolises submission to tradition
    Adults can make up their own minds.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Adults can make up their own minds.
    Not when they were brainwashed since they came to the world.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    In too many cases, they are imposed

    and even when they are "chosen" it still symbolises submission to tradition
    Shall we start banning any instances of women 'submitting to tradition?' Why don't we also ban the tradition of marriage?
    Underneath the concrete, The dream is still alive
    A hundred million lifetimes, A world that never dies - Talking Heads, City of Dreams

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    great point!

    But with the same argument: certain ways to dress are considered as shocking and are forbidden (for example: nudity). Why couldn't the Burqa & Burkini be forbidden on the same ground?
    Because the burqa and the burkini are very different garments.

    *edit*
    Last edited by mixedmedia; 08-15-09 at 04:13 PM.
    Underneath the concrete, The dream is still alive
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    =|:{|

  8. #138
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    great point!

    But with the same argument: certain ways to dress are considered as shocking and are forbidden (for example: nudity). Why couldn't the Burqa & Burkini be forbidden on the same ground?
    Well, that is really in a sense what is going on. One group of people sees the Burqa as a symbol representing something they disagree with. People love to try and ban symbols that they disagree with.

    In the same way, lots of people see nudity as representing sex, and since they are racked with guild regarding their own sexual nature, they try to ban such "shocking" symbolism.

    Personally I think people who want to go around naked should be free to do so.

    The thing is that the argument for the ban thus far is not that the people wearing the Burka are offending other people's delicate sensibilities, but rather that they need to be controlled for their own good. That they need to be "liberated" by being forced to comply with rules regarding how they dress.

    A similar argument was used to justify slavery. The poor black "savages" were judged "irresponsible, immature, and childlike, hence needing white discipline for their own good"*

    Its just as wrongheaded now as it was then.


    *Unto a good land: a history of the American people, Volume 1 By David Edwin Harrell, Jr., Edwin S. Gaustad, John B. Boles, Randall M. Miller, Randall B Woods

  9. #139
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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    I was at the lake today and thought of this thread. If the burqini is considered clothing and thus banned from the pool, what about the way this dude is dressed in his rash guard shirt? People wear those constantly for swimming so they don;t get sunburned (or so people don't see their flabby belly).



    Is that really so much better than the burqini?
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: French pool bans 'burkini' swim

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
    Shall we start banning any instances of women 'submitting to tradition?' Why don't we also ban the tradition of marriage?
    because nowadays marriage (in western countries only) is a choice, you can divorce

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