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Thread: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

  1. #11
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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    I gotta hand to ya'll. You're definitely making lemonade out of lemons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And you just used some of the same failed "cheerleading" commentary in that. I agree the US has a more flexible labour force and adaptability up to a point. However on innovation and creativity.. I disagree totally. There is simply no data on this to substantiate such a claim.
    To be clear, I didn't state that the U.S. was more innovative than any country per se, just that one of its attributes is that it is innovative. While no precise measures of innovation exist, some anecdotal evidence can be found in patents, growth/life-cycle/structural changes in young industries, emergence/growth in new industry subsectors, papers containing new scientific discoveries/knowledge, etc.

    Of course, in each case, there are limitations. Not every patent is equal so to speak. Some patents, usually business process ones, can be worth very little e.g., they may be little more than an attempt to lock up a mathematical trading formula, which is subject to huge limitations itself.

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    To be clear, I didn't state that the U.S. was more innovative than any country per se, just that one of its attributes is that it is innovative. While no precise measures of innovation exist, some anecdotal evidence can be found in patents, growth/life-cycle/structural changes in young industries, emergence/growth in new industry subsectors, papers containing new scientific discoveries/knowledge, etc.

    Of course, in each case, there are limitations. Not every patent is equal so to speak. Some patents, usually business process ones, can be worth very little e.g., they may be little more than an attempt to lock up a mathematical trading formula, which is subject to huge limitations itself.
    Using patents is highly limited. For one, patents tend to be taken out in the country where the potential for most profit is and that has been the US for many decades. Another problem in using patent statistics is that it often does not state country of origin. For example I can take out a patent in the US but I am not American am I now... but it will count as an "American" patent. And if you go look at patents per captia, one of the methods to compare, then the US is not on top.. that is usually the Asian countries.

    As for anecdotal evidence you speak off.. sorry but that does not fly either. While I can some what agree that the US has had a nack to exploit new technologies, it is not the home of invention as many American's tend to believe. And that "exploit" of new technologies often is due to its huge market, which still is one of the 2 biggest in the world and was for 50 years the absolute biggest by a wide margin and that tends to pull in people from all over the world with good ideas to make a buck so to say. It does not mean that it was the US that "invented" the product, but it does mean it was there that the product got its chance so to say.. big difference.. one is innovation and the other is market exploitation.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Using patents is highly limited. For one, patents tend to be taken out in the country where the potential for most profit is and that has been the US for many decades. Another problem in using patent statistics is that it often does not state country of origin. For example I can take out a patent in the US but I am not American am I now... but it will count as an "American" patent. And if you go look at patents per captia, one of the methods to compare, then the US is not on top.. that is usually the Asian countries.

    As for anecdotal evidence you speak off.. sorry but that does not fly either. While I can some what agree that the US has had a nack to exploit new technologies, it is not the home of invention as many American's tend to believe. And that "exploit" of new technologies often is due to its huge market, which still is one of the 2 biggest in the world and was for 50 years the absolute biggest by a wide margin and that tends to pull in people from all over the world with good ideas to make a buck so to say. It does not mean that it was the US that "invented" the product, but it does mean it was there that the product got its chance so to say.. big difference.. one is innovation and the other is market exploitation.
    Please prove everything you just said.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Please prove everything you just said.
    So I have to prove the earth is round too? Open your eyes for god sake.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So I have to prove the earth is round too? Open your eyes for god sake.
    Did you say the earth was round, sorry I missed that. You can omit that one.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Using patents is highly limited. For one, patents tend to be taken out in the country where the potential for most profit is and that has been the US for many decades.
    I don't disagree on this point.

    Another problem in using patent statistics is that it often does not state country of origin.
    The U.S. patents database lists the inventor(s) and their countries. One example (relevant section, only):



    And if you go look at patents per captia, one of the methods to compare, then the US is not on top.. that is usually the Asian countries.
    My statement is far more limited than that. I made no claim that the U.S. is more innovative than any specific country.

    While I can some what agree that the US has had a nack to exploit new technologies, it is not the home of invention as many American's tend to believe.
    I didn't make such a claim either.

    It should also be noted that most "inventions" that are patented are really improvements on older technologies or add-ons to such technologies. Revolutionary breakthroughs are scarce.

    In addition, a growing number of inventions have been developed by people from more than one country. International collaboration has been increasing.

    And that "exploit" of new technologies often is due to its huge market, which still is one of the 2 biggest in the world and was for 50 years the absolute biggest by a wide margin and that tends to pull in people from all over the world with good ideas to make a buck so to say. It does not mean that it was the US that "invented" the product, but it does mean it was there that the product got its chance so to say.. big difference.. one is innovation and the other is market exploitation.
    Having a large market is an important advantage. The U.S., European Union, and increasingly China in coming years, will all be able to leverage their large markets. With the rapid rise in the number of high-skilled, highly-educated graduates in China and its rapidly expanding market, I would not be surprised if China becomes a leader in innovation and improvement over time.

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    Re: Euro-Area Economy Contracted 0.1% in Second Quarter

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't disagree on this point.



    The U.S. patents database lists the inventor(s) and their countries. One example (relevant section, only):





    My statement is far more limited than that. I made no claim that the U.S. is more innovative than any specific country.



    I didn't make such a claim either.

    It should also be noted that most "inventions" that are patented are really improvements on older technologies or add-ons to such technologies. Revolutionary breakthroughs are scarce.

    In addition, a growing number of inventions have been developed by people from more than one country. International collaboration has been increasing.



    Having a large market is an important advantage. The U.S., European Union, and increasingly China in coming years, will all be able to leverage their large markets. With the rapid rise in the number of high-skilled, highly-educated graduates in China and its rapidly expanding market, I would not be surprised if China becomes a leader in innovation and improvement over time.
    Agree on all. Very well formulated. As for the US patent system showing country of origin, it does not per say change the statistic, as it is still taken out in the US.. the biggest market
    PeteEU

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