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Thread: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

  1. #21
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    He had a review did he not? Did it not uphold the original conviction?
    Did he not have a chance to present evidence to help his case?

    He should stay where he is until he completes his sentence, or dies in prison
    Correction. He should stay where he is until the resolution of the ongoing appeal process.

    I'm not going to sit here and blindly accept that he's guilty when the evidence used to convict him isn't even enough for many of the victims' family members. I don't have THAT much faith in the criminal justice system.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    You do realize that many, many people had their convictions overturned on appeal, right?

    The system is not perfect. Far from it.

    The case for his innocence is apparently very strong.

    The solution here is to expedite the appeal process which has been ongoing, instead of releasing him on compassionate grounds. At this rate, by the time they get around to anything, the man will be dead. And what if it turns out that he actually was innocent?
    Yes, the system is not perfect.
    Yes, innocents go to jail sometimes.
    But if we are to assume that every person on earth might be innocent even when convicted, how are we going to define a 'criminal'?
    This opinion of yours is dangerous to society no less and perhaps even more than the imperfection of the Justice system.
    Both of those problems are bugs in our society's data-bases, and both need to be purged from the system by any means possible.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  3. #23
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Correction. He should stay where he is until the resolution of the ongoing appeal process.
    Fair enough .... until he has proven himself to be innocent in a review then we should release him ofc but not a day before


  4. #24
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Yes, the system is not perfect.
    Yes, innocents go to jail sometimes.
    But if we are to assume that every person on earth might be innocent even when convicted, how are we going to define a 'criminal'?
    This opinion of yours is dangerous to society no less and perhaps even more than the imperfection of the Justice system.
    Both of those problems are bugs in our society's data-bases, and both need to be purged from the system by any means possible.
    I never said that we are to assume that every person on earth who was convicted is innocent.

    What I said is that the evidence that there was a gross miscarriage of justice is strong in this particular case, as is it has been in many others.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I never said that we are to assume that every person on earth who was convicted is innocent.

    What I said is that the evidence that there was a gross miscarriage of justice is strong in this particular case, as is it has been in many others.
    What evidence?
    Did you know? Evidence is a cutting proof.
    Do you blame the justice system for ignoring a cutting proof that they're wrong?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  6. #26
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    While I do not believe the judicial process should be circumvented, though it should be expedited to the maximum extent possible, I do believe that Mr. Megrahi should receive appropriate medical treatment and his family should have full access to visit him.
    You are generally well informed, so I do not want to sound patronising, however I wonder if you understand the politics at play here. If Megrahi is transferred based on a UK-Libyan treaty from 2004, he will end up in a Libyan prison where his family will be allowed to visit him. He may of course also be released by the Libyan authorities on his return, despite what thy will say. This is probably what Westminster and, to a lesser extent, Washington want as the terms of this treaty mean Megrahi's ongoing appeal will be dropped. This appeal could cause a lot of embarrassment for the UK government!

    What the BBC say the Scottish government, who have jurisdiction here, are planning to do is release Megrahi on "compassionate ground". This would not end the ongoing appeal. The new Scottish government should not really care what the appeal would find, however these announcement lead me to believe they think the appeal will favour Megrahi. The Scottish government do not want to be responsible for forcing a "somewhat" innocent man to die in jail, nor do they have any intention of saving the face of the Westminister government.

    The third option is of course that Megrahi will die in jail, in which case the appeal will probably continue after his death and it could lead to embarssment for both governments if it exonerates Megrahi.
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

  7. #27
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What evidence?
    Did you know? Evidence is a cutting proof.
    Do you blame the justice system for ignoring a cutting proof that they're wrong?
    The evidence used to convict him was dodgy. Not to mention that people were paid insane amounts of money to testify against him. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The evidence used to convict him was dodgy. Not to mention that people were paid insane amounts of money to testify against him. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
    Again, an evidence is a cutting proof.
    What the heck is a dodgy cutting proof?
    It seems to me as if you are looking for a way to claim that he is not guilty and should be released.
    This stinks to high heaven.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  9. #29
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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Again, an evidence is a cutting proof.
    What the heck is a dodgy cutting proof?
    It seems to me as if you are looking for a way to claim that he is not guilty and should be released.
    This stinks to high heaven.
    1. I have no idea what a cutting proof is.

    2. Please read what I actually write and not what your mind weirdly translates it to.

    3. Failing that, please point to where I claimed he should be released.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: US and UK split over prospect of Lockerbie release

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    1. I have no idea what a cutting proof is.

    2. Please read what I actually write and not what your mind weirdly translates it to.

    3. Failing that, please point to where I claimed he should be released.
    1. I completely agree.

    3. Then what exactly do you want?

    No. 2 has been ignored.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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