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Thread: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

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    Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Russia is to spend almost $500m (300m) next year reinforcing its military bases in Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia, the prime minister says.

    Vladimir Putin's announcement came as he arrived in Abkhazia for talks.

    He said Russia was committed to defending and financing the small strip of land in Georgia's north-west corner.

    Moscow officially recognised the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia following the war a year ago between Russia and Georgia.

    Apart from Russia only Nicaragua recognised the regions' independence in the conflict's aftermath; both areas are still widely held to remain part of Georgia.
    Besides what is above, Russia is also beginning to offer Russian citizenship to the residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. So here is the question, is Russia simply trying to help these break away regions in order to build their own coalition with pro-Russian states to counter Georgia and others Pro-Westernism, or is Russia attempting to reabsorb the former Soviet Bloc states?

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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    The latter!

    Russia is also offering passports to people in Moldova and Ukraine - both potential NATO members and most importantly the Crimea - a Ukrainian provence that is on tempoary lease to Russia until 2017 - when it must be returned to Ukrainain soverenty and the Russian Black Sea fleet vacate the Naval base.



    Russia is aggitatin unrest amonst the Slavic ethic population left in regions post-Soviet collpase, and intends to reserect their old claim to a "sphere of influence" amongst the ex-soviet republics - despite their wishes to join the free World

    NATO should stand strong against the Russian Imperial desires - just look at them now a one-Party Police State with no-Independent media or Judicary all under the vail of "democracy" - no thanks!
    Last edited by lunecat; 08-12-09 at 01:24 PM.
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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Quote Originally Posted by lunecat View Post
    The latter!

    Russia is also offering passports to people in Moldova and Ukraine - both potential NATO members and most importantly the Crimea - a Ukrainian provence that is on tempoary lease to Russia until 2017 - when it must be returned to Ukrainain soverenty and the Russian Black Sea fleet vacate the Naval base.

    Russia is aggitatin unrest amonst the Slavic ethic population left in regions post-Soviet collpase, and intends to reserect their old claim to a "sphere of influence" amongst the ex-soviet republics - despite their wishes to join the free World

    NATO should stand strong against the Russian Imperial desires - just look at them now a one-Party Police State with no-Independent media or Judicary all under the vail of "democracy" - no thanks!
    But if we are going to stand up for the right of Ukrainians and Georgians to self determine shouldnt we be applying the same standard to Abkazia and the Crimea?

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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Not my business what Russia does.
    If individual citizens want to get a Russian passport, then their problem.


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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Quote Originally Posted by lunecat View Post
    The latter!

    Russia is also offering passports to people in Moldova and Ukraine - both potential NATO members and most importantly the Crimea - a Ukrainian provence that is on tempoary lease to Russia until 2017 - when it must be returned to Ukrainain soverenty and the Russian Black Sea fleet vacate the Naval base.



    Russia is aggitatin unrest amonst the Slavic ethic population left in regions post-Soviet collpase, and intends to reserect their old claim to a "sphere of influence" amongst the ex-soviet republics - despite their wishes to join the free World

    NATO should stand strong against the Russian Imperial desires - just look at them now a one-Party Police State with no-Independent media or Judicary all under the vail of "democracy" - no thanks!
    First of all in spite of the western agitation, in spite of militarizing former Soviet republics and encouraging hostilities of their pro western governments against Russia, the Slavic ethnic population, as well as Abkhazians, Crimeans and Ossetins do not want to join the free world.

    Abkhazia, Ossetia:

    The 2nd of all NATO is taking a strong stand against Russia. It is re-arming the Georgian military and encouraging anti-Abkhazian and anti-Ossetian agitation in Georgia.

    TBILISI, Georgia, July 23 (UPI) -- U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden promised the Georgian Parliament Thursday the United States will not recognize Georgia's breakaway regions.
    "I speak not only on behalf of myself as vice president, but I speak for my president, President Obama, as well as my country," Biden said. "I come here on behalf of the United States with a simple, straightforward message: We, the United States, stand by you on your journey to a secure, free and democratic, and once again united, Georgia."


    Obviously, that in order to have once again united, Georgia, NATO promises to kill all Ossetins and Abhazians or to remove all of them from the territories wehere they have lived since the Biblical times, because there is no other way to make them join the free world. Tell me how the stand of NATO can be expressed any stronger?

    Thirdly Russia cannot absorb Ossetia and Abhazia, both provinces had always been autonomic provinces of Russia, then the USSR, even Stalin did not remove their autonomic status. When with the fall of the USSR things messed up, Ossetia and Abhazia found themselves to be parts of Georgia when Ossetins and Abhasians had not and did not consider themselves to be parts of Georgia, and in fact they are not Georgians,- different language etc. Then the pro-Western Georgian Gov-nt announced that they could not have their autonomy anymore. Historically, they did not have any choice but either to give up their autonomy or ask Russia to guarantee it as Russia had been doing throughout their history. I am afraid the free world will have hard time to remove their freedoms (thats why the Georgian gov-nt militarized and trained by NATO had to go for genocide in the 1st war.)

    Crimea:

    It is very similar to the situation in Crimea. Crimea had been a part of Russia and Russians had to spill a lot of blood to get it, including getting it from Turkey. Yet Turkey does not claim it to be its territory. In 1960th the soviet Leninist Chrushev gave it as a present to The Soviet Republic of Ukraine. It was a symbolic gesture because the obvious and the only one possible meaning and condition of it was as long as both Ukraine and Crimea remain parts of the USSR controlled from Moscow. It did not change a thing in life of Crimeans. With the fall of the USSR, when Ukrainian gov-nt is going pro_western and joining western hostilities against Russia Crimeans are pushed to make the same hard choice as Ossetins. Considering that in Russia Ukraine being a part of Russia used to be called Malorussia or Smaller Russia for centuries and that ancient Kiev (the capitol of Ukraine) was once the capitol Of Kiev Russia, it should be of no surprise that the rating of the pro-western gov-nt in Ukraine is below 5%, when the majority of Ukrainians approve Putin.

    Ukraine:

    Kievan Rus' (,
    Belarusian: Кіеўская Русь,
    Russian: Ки́евская Русь,
    Ukrainian: Ки́ївська Русь,
    is considered an early predecessor of three modern East Slavic nations: Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians.[1] The reigns of Vladimir the Great (9801015) and his son Yaroslav I the Wise (10191054) constitute the Golden Age of Kiev, which saw the acceptance of Christianity and the creation of the first East Slavic written legal code, the Russkaya Pravda[ =Russian Truth .] The Orthodox church which resided in Vladimir and later in Moscow remained a common unifying factor of Rus lands.''



    A chart on Religion in Russia in Time magazine for May 27, 1996 shows Russian Orthodox as 71.8%

    The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) (UOC) has 35 eparchies and 10,875 communities (approximately 68 percent of all Orthodox Christian communities in the country), most of which were located in the central, southern, and eastern oblasts. By 2007, the Church had 122 monasteries, 3519 monks and nuns, 7509 priests, 7755 churches with 840 churches being built.[1]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJPliUIYqOo"]YouTube - Russian Patriarch urges Church unity[/ame]
    I am afraid the free world will have harder time that it thinks removing freedoms from Ukranians.

    Moldova:
    90% of the population of Moldova professes Orthodoxy.

    The autonomous Metropolis of Chişinău and Moldova (belonging to the Russian Orthodox Church), according to the State Service on Religious Issues, has 1,194 parishes;. In addition followers of the Old Rite Russian Orthodox Church (Old Believers) make up approximately 3.6 percent of the population. The religious traditions of the Eastern Orthodoxy are entwined with the culture and patrimony of the country. Many self-professed atheists routinely celebrate religious holidays, cross themselves, and even light candles and kiss icons if local tradition and the occasion demand.
    I am afraid the free world will have harder time that it thinks removing freedoms from Moldovans.


    The order in the video is :
    Russian President Medvedev
    His wife
    PM Putin
    his wife
    Belarus President Likashenko,
    Moldova President
    etc
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ6kgRk0mcQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Отпевание Патриарха Алексия II (Patriarch Alexy II). Part 2[/ame]

    I am afraid, the free world has more problems at hand converting Russia, than it thinks or can even think, if it can think.
    Last edited by justone; 08-13-09 at 02:28 PM.

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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    But if we are going to stand up for the right of Ukrainians and Georgians to self determine shouldnt we be applying the same standard to Abkazia and the Crimea?
    Ukraine and Georgia are countries where as Abkaziz and the Crimea are NOT coutries they are a simple provences of those Countries.

    I do encourage the entire of Georgia and Ukraine to self-determination - both currently have pro-Western elected Governments - I do not encourage Russia aggitating minority slavic population within those Sovereign Countries in order to break those Soverign Countries.


    Russia is meddling in ex-Soviet Republic business in order to enforce their long held desire for a "sphere of influence" and they do not deserve one.
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    Re: Russia to boost Abkhazia presence

    Quote Originally Posted by lunecat View Post
    Ukraine and Georgia are countries where as Abkaziz and the Crimea are NOT coutries they are a simple provences of those Countries.

    I do encourage the entire of Georgia and Ukraine to self-determination - both currently have pro-Western elected Governments - I do not encourage Russia aggitating minority slavic population within those Sovereign Countries in order to break those Soverign Countries.


    Russia is meddling in ex-Soviet Republic business in order to enforce their long held desire for a "sphere of influence" and they do not deserve one.
    And Ukraine and Georgia were provinces of the soviet union untill they achieved international recognition. The only reason we wont do the same for Abkazia and Crimea (should the Crimeans decide to secede) is that its inconveniant for us. But that doenst mean that as a nation their right to self determination is any less significant under international law. The UN charter states that every nation has a right to self determination not just every state that the west chooses to recognise.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 08-17-09 at 08:15 AM.

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