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Thread: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

  1. #191
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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    No, not MANDATORY, optional. And the counseling is nothing more than advising seniors to appoint power of attorney, hospice,...etc. Further, this counseling is supported by every medical association in the country. Oh, and it is covered once for every five years, if people want to change all of their decisions, then they will have to pay if they do it before the five year period, unless in cases of loss of spouse and then it would be covered for changing POA over to a child/relative.



    do you have a link to the corresponding pages in the bill that I may review your claim?
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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Does the fact that we have had cases in washington and Oregon where the state run medical system has refused medication and instea offered euthinasia?


    Combine that with some of the language in this bill, Is it not something.... (take outthe inflammatory "death councils") we need to look at and be concerned about?
    AS I understand the language, no, not at this time. What is contained is simply an agreement to pay for counseling that is already done(and should be done). I see no evidence that the government is even able to get involved in the counseling process, just that, basically, the doctor would bill the government and not the patient for the counseling.

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    do you have a link to the corresponding pages in the bill that I may review your claim?
    I couldn't find the actual bill, but Fox news even says such, though they fearmonger that it may lead to euthanasia.

    'End-of-Life' Counseling Intensifies Health Care Debate - Political News - FOXNews.com

    A provision in President Obama's health care reform bill encourages "end-of- life" counseling for seniors -- sparking euthanasia fears among some of the legislation's critics and leading others to believe that the White House is looking to save money by pressuring insurers to provide less coverage to seniors.

    The provision, tucked deep within the House bill, would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation every five years, and more frequent sessions if a person is suffering a life-threatening disease.

    Health providers would be required to explain to seniors the end-of-life services available, including "palliative care and hospice."

    "This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich. said in a statement last month.

    But the sessions are not required, as President Obama reassured seniors last week at an AARP town hall meeting, when one woman said she'd been told that the policy requires everyone of Medicare age to be visited and told they have to decide how they wish to die.

    "Nobody is going to be forcing you to make a set of decisions on end-of-life care based on, you know, some bureaucratic law in Washington," the president said.

    Obama encourages people to create living wills, but it's not clear if he supports Medicare reimbursement for "end-of-life" counseling.
    Noticed I highlighted both the truth and how misleading language is added to infer something else. There is NO euthanasia or any other ridiculous items in the bill. People who want to see this fail paint it that way for their own political gains.

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quite frankly,I am tired of hearing others like FOX, CNN and others comment third hand, I'd like to find the page in question and come to my own conclusion.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Quite frankly,I am tired of hearing others like FOX, CNN and others comment third hand, I'd like to find the page in question and come to my own conclusion.
    I used the old standby False Euthanasia Claims | FactCheck.org.

    The langauge from the bill:

    H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

    (A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

    (B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

    (C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

    (D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning … .

    (E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

    (F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders … .
    from the article:

    Page 425 does deal with counseling sessions for seniors, but it is far from recommending a "Logan’s Run" approach to Medicare spending. In fact, it requires Medicare to cover counseling sessions for seniors who want to consider their end-of-life choices – including whether they want to refuse or, conversely, require certain types of care. The claim that the bill would "push suicide" is a falsehood.
    Link to bill: http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post

    False, there are three separate plans right now and only ONE has a government plan. The other two, which are much more likely to pass have state co-ops that are not federally ran at all.
    Nope, one final bill will be passed based upon the three options, and the one that I am hearing most is for the government plan, which has attrocious pitfalls written into it.



    Read the bills, there is no such power of the government to make such decisions, all three bills state that coverage cannot be denied for any reason and that medical decisions will be made between patient and doctor. Also, states are the biggest propagators of sin taxes, not the federal government.
    There is already a proposal for a federal soda tax to patially fund this bill, furthermore, the bill can state whatever it will, the facts are if the government is paying it can deny payments to whatever it deems appropriate and you cannot sue the federal government for damages. If a doctor deems a surgery necessary it may happen.....when the government clears for said surgery to be paid for, thus, the final decision would be with the fed.



    Of course it isn't, but nor is it an evil government plot to control the citizens!!!!SPOOKY
    The problem with us laughing about it is that these idiots in Washington are trying to pass this thing off as some kind of miracle plan, a solve-all if you will, and the reality is it is so loaded that it will undoubtedly create more damage than solutions.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 08-13-09 at 10:37 AM.
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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I used the old standby False Euthanasia Claims | FactCheck.org.

    The langauge from the bill:



    from the article:



    Link to bill: http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf


    Thank you...


    What does this mean to you?


    "(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—

    "(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;



    Who decides this?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So what you're saying is that public meetings with elected officials should be conducted precisely according to whatever the politician wants to say, and the serfs should say nothing and applaud when ordered to.

    Unless it's a Republican politician.
    This is exactly what I think they're asking for. Next up? A dress code. Uniforms and a raised arm salute.

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

    How about someone 91 years old...

    or 81...

    or 71...

    or 61...

    or 51...

    Where are YOU going to draw the line, and what gives YOU that right?
    I wouldn't draw that line. But insurance companies already do, and I think that there should be a panel of medical practitioners that set guideliness about end of life care. And preemie care, for that matter.

    Let me just say it like this. Sometimes family members are too close to the situation, emotionally, to do what should be done. It's like my dad, who let our dog live on for a year with tumors that would burst and turn into abcesses. She was in pain the entire time, but he couldn't let her go.

    I understand that it sucks that your child was born prematurely at 23 weeks. But, **** happens. LIfe sucks that way. We're all gonna die, and there isn't anything, ultimately, that the medical establishment can do to stop that.

    Death is part of life. We have to deal with it. And, no, life should not always be preserved at any cost.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-13-09 at 10:48 AM.

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    Re: Specter: Protests not 'representative of America'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Thank you...


    What does this mean to you?


    "(B) The level of treatment indicated under subparagraph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—

    "(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;



    Who decides this?
    Quote a little more surrounding it please, but it should be the patient in consultation with the doctor decides. In other words, a patient can decide against some measures to sustain life, which I personally would choose to do. If I am going to die anyway, just make me as comfortable as possible and let me die, don't put me on life support or such.

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