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Wider Role Is Seen for Rove in Firings of Prosecutors

danarhea

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Transcripts of their testimony — including many instances in which the two aides said they could not remember important details of the debate over the United States attorneys — were among the materials released Tuesday by the House Judiciary Committee.


A lawyer for Mr. Rove could not be reached for comment immediately after the release of the documents.

The e-mail messages, in particular, raise questions about the Bush White House’s assertion that it played only a limited role in the firings. A federal prosecutor is continuing to investigation accusations that officials may have acted criminally in the firings or in their testimony to Congress about the incident, which led to the resignation of former Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and many of his top aides at the Justice Department.


The Justice Department has been sitting on top of some pretty explosive documents for quite a while. Today, those documents were released, and they show that Karl Rove had an active role in the firing of US Attorneys. In the case of David Iglesias, it was for not selectively prosecuting Democrats in New Mexico.

Now there will be some who post that the attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. However, that does not entitle the President or his staff to break the law. Selective prosecutions of one party DO violate the law, and it looks pretty clear that Iglesias refused to break the law by doing selective prosecutions, based on political affiliation. That lawbreaking translates right up the line to those who were attempting to get Iglesias to do the selective prosecutions - Namely, Karl Rove. But who didn't already know that?

Article is here.
 
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The Justice Department has been sitting on top of some pretty explosive documents for quite a while. Today, those documents were released, and they show that Karl Rove had an active role in the firing of US Attorneys. In the case of David Iglesias, it was for not selectively prosecuting Democrats in New Mexico.

Now there will be some who post that the attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. However, that does not entitle the President or his staff to break the law. Selective prosecutions of one party DO violate the law, and it looks pretty clear that Iglesias refused to break the law by doing selective prosecutions, based on political affiliation. That lawbreaking translates right up the line to those who were attempting to get Iglesias to do the selective prosecutions - Namely, Karl Rove. But who didn't already know that?

Article is here.


If they push this, it will force the current AG to expalin why he refused to press charges against two Black Panthers who clearly violated the law at a polling house last year. I doubt he's going to put himself in that position.
 
It's pretty clear that America has rejected the GOP politics of yester year. And, perhaps, that is not only because of the abuse of power and political shenanigans that became synonomous with the GOP during the Bush years but also because we seemed to have forgotten all about the democrat shenanigans 8-10 years preceeding.

The call for Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld to have their head served on a platter is not much different than the crap we had to suffer back during the Newt Gengrich/Kenneth Starr years in their efforts to discredit the Clinton administration and disrupt the government, in general, all cloaked in the name of partisanship preference.

Neither party lays claim to the moral highground. One has to ask what would motivate an individual to climb to such heights of power if they didn't intend on using and abusing it. Nobody buys the "to serve my country" reason for being in politics anymore.

Republicans vs. Democrats. Bloods vs. Crips. No matter who gets the upperhand, they are all still scumbags in my opinion.

I think that the efforts to hang Rove out to dry are just as futile as the Clinton witch hunt/crucifixion was. And it's all for naught.


You can't get toothpaste back into the tube. I say we just save the millions and millions the govt. spends on these vendictive "get-backs" and spend it on our troops instead. True, justice has to be worth something. But I am somewhat skeptical and that, at the end of the day, only the lawyers will get anything of any value from it. The process can be stretched out far longer than our collective interest can stay interested. Millions of dollars later, nothing.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Best just let sleeping dogs lie.
 
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If they push this, it will force the current AG to expalin why he refused to press charges against two Black Panthers who clearly violated the law at a polling house last year. I doubt he's going to put himself in that position.

Ah, the usual right wing tactic when caught doing something wrong...point to some one else.
 
Ah, the usual right wing tactic when caught doing something wrong...point to some one else.

As usual, the Leftist tactic, play by a double standard.
 
As usual, the Leftist tactic, play by a double standard.

Wrong. Check out my comments when the black panther story came out.
 
The call for Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld to have their head served on a platter is not much different than the crap we had to suffer back during the Newt Gengrich/Kenneth Starr years in their efforts to discredit the Clinton administration and disrupt the government, in general, all cloaked in the name of partisanship preference.
You would be right, except that the violation of laws were a factor in both cases. Clinton was accused of sexual harassment. This matter pertains to accusations of obstruction of justice and violation of the Hatch Act. If and when government officials break the law, they should be held accountable, and when they are, it's not "partisanship preference" or discrediting the administration or disrupting the government, it's justice being served.

You can't get toothpaste back into the tube. I say we just save the millions and millions the govt. spends on these vendictive "get-backs" and spend it on our troops instead. True, justice has to be worth something. But I am somewhat skeptical and that, at the end of the day, only the lawyers will get anything of any value from it. The process can be stretched out far longer than our collective interest can stay interested. Millions of dollars later, nothing.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Best just let sleeping dogs lie.
You might not care if government officials break the law, and you might prefer to sweep it under the rug like nothing happened, but I think accountability in the government is not something to trade away for convenience.
 
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You would be right, except that the violation of laws were a factor in both cases. Clinton was accused of sexual harassment. This matter pertains to accusations of obstruction of justice and violation of the Hatch Act. If and when government officials break the law, they should be held accountable, and when they are, it's not "partisanship preference" or discrediting the administration or disrupting the government, it's justice being served.


You might not care if government officials break the law, and you might prefer to sweep it under the rug like nothing happened, but I think accountability in the government is not something to trade away for convenience.

hear, hear

As a Democratic voter I stopped trying to defend Clinton's actions after about five minutes. This did not mean that I approved of actions Republicans trying to run him out of office. I am sick of having him thrown in my face every time I complain of Republican corruption as if a little action on the side and lying about it was somehow worse than useless wars, domestic spying, or firing US attorneys for not playing ball. So for the record I am against any corruption no matter the party. I would call for the appropriate level of prosecution for any elected official no matter the party. Karl rove damaged the effectiveness of the DOJ by attempting to turn it into political tool and he deserves much jail time for that. It has been a long time but the DOJ should properly be apolitical, this does not mean hands off politicians or that prosecution of one is a purly political move. The fact that many think that going after Rove is a purely political ploy is just one indicator of how damaged the DOJ is and how far we have still to go to return it to the non partisan enforcer of law it should be.
 
I think criminal activity needs to be pursued & punished even when it involves former Presidents, VP's or their henchmen. Ford's 1974 pardon of Nixon (& Nixon's acceptance of same) may possibly have emboldened, GW Bush, D. Cheney, Rove et al into feeling they were also above the law....like Nixon.
I say Obama should step totally aside & let AG Holder do his job & let the chips fall where they may. (a special prosecutor would be the way to go, imo)
We are a nation of laws, not men.
 
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I'm glad the inner Rove is as ugly as the outer Rove. I know it's a terribly superficial thing to say, but he is a pure scumbag. No surprise here.
 
There can be no comparison in terms of illegality or even scumbaggery between these firings and the hatchet job during this cover-up:

Obama Accuses Fired Inspector General of AmeriCorps of Being 'Confused, Disoriented' - Political News - FOXNews.com

Walpin led a 2008 investigation into allegations of misused taxpayer funds distributed by AmeriCorps to the St. HOPE Academy of Sacramento, founded in 1989 by Obama supporter and former NBA player Kevin Johnson. Walpin said Johnson, now mayor of Sacramento, misused roughly $850,000 in AmeriCorps funds. His referral to the U.S. Attorney's Office did not result in the filing of criminal charges. But St. HOPE officials agreed, via a settlement, to repay half of its AmeriCorps grants.

On Tuesday, Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican, sought all White House information Walpin's firing. That followed a request from Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, that AmeriCorps provide "any and all records, e-mail, memoranda, documents, communications, or other information" related to Walpin's firing. Issa and Grassley are minority members of congressional oversight panels.

Republicans also have asked what role, if any, First Lady Michelle Obama played in Walpin's firing. The White House denies she had any voice in Walpin's future with the agency.

Republicans began to question Michelle Obama's role after press reports indicated she was taking a strong interest in AmeriCorps activities and when her former chief of staff, Jackie Norris, became a "senior adviser" to the Corporation for National and Community Service, also known as AmeriCorps.



This admin., in only a few months, has re-defined 'corruption on a grand scale'.

It is worth mentioning that it is only their hubris which is bringing down the house. The MSM has had no interest in these blatant crimes, but the sheer weight and volume of them, combined with utter arrogance and unwillingness to even attempt to cover them up properly, will eventually cause the feeding frenzy of media they so richly deserve.
 
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There can be no comparison in terms of illegality or even scumbaggery between these firings and the hatchet job during this cover-up:

Obama Accuses Fired Inspector General of AmeriCorps of Being 'Confused, Disoriented' - Political News - FOXNews.com

Walpin led a 2008 investigation into allegations of misused taxpayer funds distributed by AmeriCorps to the St. HOPE Academy of Sacramento, founded in 1989 by Obama supporter and former NBA player Kevin Johnson. Walpin said Johnson, now mayor of Sacramento, misused roughly $850,000 in AmeriCorps funds. His referral to the U.S. Attorney's Office did not result in the filing of criminal charges. But St. HOPE officials agreed, via a settlement, to repay half of its AmeriCorps grants.

On Tuesday, Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican, sought all White House information Walpin's firing. That followed a request from Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, that AmeriCorps provide "any and all records, e-mail, memoranda, documents, communications, or other information" related to Walpin's firing. Issa and Grassley are minority members of congressional oversight panels.

Republicans also have asked what role, if any, First Lady Michelle Obama played in Walpin's firing. The White House denies she had any voice in Walpin's future with the agency.

Republicans began to question Michelle Obama's role after press reports indicated she was taking a strong interest in AmeriCorps activities and when her former chief of staff, Jackie Norris, became a "senior adviser" to the Corporation for National and Community Service, also known as AmeriCorps.



This admin., in only a few months, has re-defined 'corruption on a grand scale'.

It is worth mentioning that it is only their hubris which is bringing down the house. The MSM has had no interest in these blatant crimes, but the sheer weight and volume of them, combined with utter arrogance and unwillingness to even attempt to cover them up properly, will eventually cause the feeding frenzy of media they so richly deserve.

Hey, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Care to talk about what we are?
 
Hey, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Care to talk about what we are?




Um...yes, this is also bad, just to a much, much smaller degree..

Just a bit fascinated about where our 'investigation dollars' are going. Sorry to offend!


.
 
Um...yes, this is also bad, just to a much, much smaller degree..

Just a bit fascinated about where our 'investigation dollars' are going. Sorry to offend!


.

Looks as if it is going to investigate possible criminal activity. You disapprove of that?
 
The Justice Department has been sitting on top of some pretty explosive documents for quite a while. Today, those documents were released, and they show that Karl Rove had an active role in the firing of US Attorneys. In the case of David Iglesias, it was for not selectively prosecuting Democrats in New Mexico.

This was all perfect until you got here. Nothing in this article indicates that the reason he was fired was because he refused to selectively prosecute Dems in New Mexico.

Even if we assume that the reason he was fired was because he didn't investigate the Dems, you still have to show that that his decision not to prosecute was right and that the Reps fired him in spite of knowing that.

If Iglesias refused to investigation an issue that legitimately deserved investigation or that the DoJ believed legitimately deserved investigation, then their decision to fire him is entirely appropriate.

The burden of proof here is incredibly high, which is probably why the Dems haven't indicted anyone yet. It's more beneficial to let it play out like this, where the legal realities aren't on the front page.
 
Got to love the right wingers..

Investigating government corruption during a Republican government.. never!! unless its the Dems doing the corrupting of course.There was no wrong doing so no investigations is needed.

Investigating a President for supposed corruption which then morfs into an investigation into his sex life... HELL YEA, lets spend half a billion dollars doing that!.. he is after all a Democrat. Most expensive blow job in history and you got only a lousy T-Shirt saying "Clinton lied" out of it.

Right wing = hypocrites and the party of "NO" and double standards.
 
Got to love the right wingers..

Investigating government corruption during a Republican government.. never!! unless its the Dems doing the corrupting of course.There was no wrong doing so no investigations is needed.

Investigating a President for supposed corruption which then morfs into an investigation into his sex life... HELL YEA, lets spend half a billion dollars doing that!.. he is after all a Democrat. Most expensive blow job in history and you got only a lousy T-Shirt saying "Clinton lied" out of it.

Right wing = hypocrites and the party of "NO" and double standards.

Thanks, this was directly on point and really added a lot to the discussion.
 
From the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/us/politics/12firings.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

A federal prosecutor, Nora Dannehy, is continuing to investigate the firings, including whether officials gave false or misleading statements to Congress. The testimony of Mr. Gonzales, the former attorney general who resigned amid the controversy over the firings, appears to have received particular scrutiny, according to lawyers with knowledge of the case.

I'm happy to read this because I strongly suspect he lied to Congress. I would love to see him get into deep doo doo. The guy has no morals.

A separate review released last year by the Justice Department inspector general faulted Mr. Gonzales’s misstatements to Congress about the firings and his “extraordinary lack of recollection about the entire removal process.”

Yup. He's a liar alright.
 
Of course we all also understand that Karl Rove had no power to effect any changes. Therefore, someone above him must have also broken laws to illegally fire these attys. We need to get Rove to cop a plea & nail the REAL top bad guys!
 

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It's pretty clear that America has rejected the GOP politics of yester year. And, perhaps, that is not only because of the abuse of power and political shenanigans that became synonomous with the GOP during the Bush years but also because we seemed to have forgotten all about the democrat shenanigans 8-10 years preceeding.

Americans certainly were fooled into rejected GOP politics; and now they have a $1.8 trillion deficit and mounting debt to thank for it all.

One thing is certain, the efforts of the Democrat and their willing minions in the drive-by media were successful in blaming Republicans for everything from Hurricane Katrina to warts. But alas, the reality is far different from the "perception."

If not for the serious personal impact this cabal of lunatics in the Democrat party are causing us, I would be enjoying watching Americans come to the realization that once again they were fooled and misinformed by the mainstream media and how much the mainstream media was in the tank for their guy.

Republicans vs. Democrats. Bloods vs. Crips. No matter who gets the upperhand, they are all still scumbags in my opinion.

There is a lot of truth to this; however, there are far more scum bags, or perhaps just plain stupid, politicians on the Democrat side than there are on the Republican side which is why I always prescribe to vote for the LESSER of the two evils.

Government is one of those necessary evils societies have to deal with; the reason the US has been so successful was the built in checks and balances of our Constitution, our forefathers warranted suspicion of politicians and Governments to usurp people's rights and the formerly cynicism of the American people with regards to their politicians.

One cannot trust ANYONE who has to pander to voters and contributors to get a job; but one must also only support those who at least espouse the belief that LESS Government is always better than MORE Government; something that appears to be lacking in today’s politics.

I think that the efforts to hang Rove out to dry are just as futile as the Clinton witch hunt/crucifixion was. And it's all for naught.

I am always amazed when people make this kind of argument; Clinton lied under oath about sex with an INTERN. There isn't a corporation in America today that would not have terminated a President for this gross lack of good judgment.

Yet here you go again, claiming it was a "witch" hunt. Yet the FACTS are that we had a sitting President who was so arrogant and smug that he felt he could have with his employees, LIE about it and then get away with it.

He was a major embarrassment to the office of the President and should have lost his job; but alas, the Democrats in the Senate just could not bring themselves to the RIGHT thing.

You can't get toothpaste back into the tube. I say we just save the millions and millions the govt. spends on these vendictive "get-backs" and spend it on our troops instead. True, justice has to be worth something. But I am somewhat skeptical and that, at the end of the day, only the lawyers will get anything of any value from it. The process can be stretched out far longer than our collective interest can stay interested. Millions of dollars later, nothing.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Best just let sleeping dogs lie.

One hundred percent agreement on this one; unfortunately, I do not think that the lunatics running Congress today can bring themselves to drop this partisan witch hunt and efforts to impugn those they politically disagree with.

It is a sad testament to the state of Democrat politics which have remained mostly unchanged for decades and illustrative why such ingrates should be kept on the fringe of political power.

You would be hard pressed to find Republicans who have stooped this low; but I am all eyes to see any evidence of it. This is not to suggest they are infallible, but when you watch the Congress in action and see the behavior on committees of the likes of Conyers, Barney FfffFranks, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Henry the clown Waxman, you have to wonder how these retards ever get up and tie their shoes in the morning.
 
I think criminal activity needs to be pursued & punished even when it involves former Presidents, VP's or their henchmen. Ford's 1974 pardon of Nixon (& Nixon's acceptance of same) may possibly have emboldened, GW Bush, D. Cheney, Rove et al into feeling they were also above the law....like Nixon.
I say Obama should step totally aside & let AG Holder do his job & let the chips fall where they may. (a special prosecutor would be the way to go, imo)
We are a nation of laws, not men.

And yet, with all the demagoguery and investigations, no criminal activity ever occurred except for the public exclamations of Democrats who seem to have an amazing propensity for yelling "the sky is falling."

I agree with you; let the investigations and kangaroo courts begin! Let's get the truth out there and let the American people see what desperate and corrupt politicians the Democrats are as they attempt to continue to impugn the reputation of those whom they politically disagree with.

One thing has been apparent in all the desperate acts by the Democrats to impugn those they disagree with; there has been no rush to send out criminal complaints and subpoenas because the REAL goal of the Democrats has not been to get the truth and prosecute criminal behavior.

The REAL goal here is to drag the reputations of good people through the mud of public opinion in the media in an effort to give the PERCEPTION that Bush and his administration was somehow "corrupt."

So it will beg the question of those like you who think that there was this "corrupt" and "criminal" behavior; if, when the Democrats are done wasting tax payer money and NO criminal complaints or prosecutions come forth, will you still desperately cling to your notions about the Bush administration which will have been proved to be nothing more than political posturing and unjustified public incrimination?

I think not; but there is always hope that Americans will see through all the partisan BS, distortions, demagoguery and political posturing and see these Democrat thugs for what they are.
 
Americans certainly were fooled into rejected GOP politics; and now they have a $1.8 trillion deficit and mounting debt to thank for it all.

One thing is certain, the efforts of the Democrat and their willing minions in the drive-by media were successful in blaming Republicans for everything from Hurricane Katrina to warts. But alas, the reality is far different from the "perception."

If not for the serious personal impact this cabal of lunatics in the Democrat party are causing us, I would be enjoying watching Americans come to the realization that once again they were fooled and misinformed by the mainstream media and how much the mainstream media was in the tank for their guy.



There is a lot of truth to this; however, there are far more scum bags, or perhaps just plain stupid, politicians on the Democrat side than there are on the Republican side which is why I always prescribe to vote for the LESSER of the two evils.

Government is one of those necessary evils societies have to deal with; the reason the US has been so successful was the built in checks and balances of our Constitution, our forefathers warranted suspicion of politicians and Governments to usurp people's rights and the formerly cynicism of the American people with regards to their politicians.

One cannot trust ANYONE who has to pander to voters and contributors to get a job; but one must also only support those who at least espouse the belief that LESS Government is always better than MORE Government; something that appears to be lacking in today’s politics.



I am always amazed when people make this kind of argument; Clinton lied under oath about sex with an INTERN. There isn't a corporation in America today that would not have terminated a President for this gross lack of good judgment.

Yet here you go again, claiming it was a "witch" hunt. Yet the FACTS are that we had a sitting President who was so arrogant and smug that he felt he could have with his employees, LIE about it and then get away with it.

He was a major embarrassment to the office of the President and should have lost his job; but alas, the Democrats in the Senate just could not bring themselves to the RIGHT thing.



One hundred percent agreement on this one; unfortunately, I do not think that the lunatics running Congress today can bring themselves to drop this partisan witch hunt and efforts to impugn those they politically disagree with.

It is a sad testament to the state of Democrat politics which have remained mostly unchanged for decades and illustrative why such ingrates should be kept on the fringe of political power.

You would be hard pressed to find Republicans who have stooped this low; but I am all eyes to see any evidence of it. This is not to suggest they are infallible, but when you watch the Congress in action and see the behavior on committees of the likes of Conyers, Barney FfffFranks, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Henry the clown Waxman, you have to wonder how these retards ever get up and tie their shoes in the morning.

Amazing.......A very long post with not one word directed anywhere near the subject of this thread.
Have any thoughts about Rove or politically based firings of US Attys?
 
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