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Thread: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

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    Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    This is a bad mistake on B.O.'s part... You don't "attack" the People that Defend America.


    Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected - Los Angeles Times

    They're turning their back on our Defenders... And seem more worried over the Trash that Master-Minded the 9-11 attacks against us.

    The Justice Department authorized waterboarding in an August 2002 memo that contained a caveat that could prove crucial to any criminal investigation. Although it allowed the approved methods to be "used more than once," the memo stipulated that "repetition will not be substantial because the techniques generally lose their effectiveness after several repetitions."

    One passage of the CIA report declassified this year said that the method had been used "at least 83 times during August 2002" on Abu Zubaydah, the first senior Al Qaeda figure captured by the agency. Waterboarding was then employed "183 times during March 2003" on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-09-09 at 12:08 PM.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    This is a bad mistake on B.O.'s part... You don't "attack" the People that Defend America.


    Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected - Los Angeles Times

    They're turning their back on our Defenders...
    It's a dumb move, but not because you don't "attack" the CIA. They are just as capable of breaking the law as the FBI, just as likely to break the law as New Jersey mayors, and just as deserving of punishment for breaking the law as average citizens.

    It's a dumb move because it reeks of political opportunism, payback, and the criminalizing of policy. It's a dumb move because there is a significant question whether a crime was even committed. It's a dumb move because it shows Dear Leader singling out the CIA for persecution while keeping (and, in some cases, extending) the very things for which he is persecuting the CIA (rendition, indefinite detention, secret prisons, enhanced interrogation, et cetera).

    When Dear Leader closes Bagram Air Base and closes the loopholes in his own executive orders on terrorist interrogations, then this move to persecute the CIA would begin to appear semi-above board. As he is not likely to do either, this is just politics, Chicago-style.

    I have said it before and I will say it again: If Dear Leader truly wants to have a public airing on this matter, the smart thing to do would be to grant preemptive pardons to anyone even remotely connected to Guantanamo and terrorist interrogations, and remove the threat of criminal prosecution. Sending people to prison for doing what they understood to be their job, and operating under pretext of legality, is not how justice should be administered.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    This is a bad mistake on B.O.'s part... You don't "attack" the People that Defend America.


    Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected - Los Angeles Times

    They're turning their back on our Defenders... And seem more worried over the Trash that Master-Minded the 9-11 attacks against us.

    The Justice Department authorized waterboarding in an August 2002 memo that contained a caveat that could prove crucial to any criminal investigation. Although it allowed the approved methods to be "used more than once," the memo stipulated that "repetition will not be substantial because the techniques generally lose their effectiveness after several repetitions."

    One passage of the CIA report declassified this year said that the method had been used "at least 83 times during August 2002" on Abu Zubaydah, the first senior Al Qaeda figure captured by the agency. Waterboarding was then employed "183 times during March 2003" on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.
    First, please read the Breaking News guidelines.

    Second, while I disagree with Celticlord on the reasons(as always), I do agree that any criminal investigation is a bad idea in this case. Find out what happened, how it happened, and change the rules for the future, but do not prosecute people who where to the best of their knowledge following the rules.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Find out what happened, how it happened, and change the rules for the future, but do not prosecute people who where to the best of their knowledge following the rules.
    Exactly. Why punish anybody for simply performing within the scope of their defined roles?




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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by hiswoman View Post
    Exactly. Why punish anybody for simply performing within the scope of their defined roles?
    There may be people who do deserve prosecution discovered in an investigation into the torture/EIT. One possibility(and I stress this is simply a possibility and nothing more) would be if the superiors of those convicted at Abu Graib actually did order what was done there, they would clearly deserve prosecution, but I think prosecutions just for torture/EIT would be bad for the country. It's kinda like a possible Nixon prosecution would have been: good in the name of absolute justice, but bad for the health of the country.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There may be people who do deserve prosecution discovered in an investigation into the torture/EIT. One possibility(and I stress this is simply a possibility and nothing more) would be if the superiors of those convicted at Abu Graib actually did order what was done there, they would clearly deserve prosecution, but I think prosecutions just for torture/EIT would be bad for the country. It's kinda like a possible Nixon prosecution would have been: good in the name of absolute justice, but bad for the health of the country.
    Yes, I agree with this. It appears that Obama isn't thinking about what's best for the country as a whole in dealing with this situation. A leader must always place the welfare of the people before his/her own political interests. Obama needs to make peace with the fact that he's not going to be able to please everybody with his decisions.




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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    This is a purely political move designed to appeal to Obama's base who are angry as hell that Bush and Cheney have remained untouched and unscathed in regard to the Iraq War, torture, or any other policy, for that matter. Toss them a little 'prosecution bone' to keep them occupied and hope they'll stay on board as Obama triangulates in Iraq, Afghanistan, and GITMO.

    ..

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    This is a purely political move designed to appeal to Obama's base who are angry as hell that Bush and Cheney have remained untouched and unscathed in regard to the Iraq War, torture, or any other policy, for that matter. Toss them a little 'prosecution bone' to keep them occupied and hope they'll stay on board as Obama triangulates in Iraq, Afghanistan, and GITMO.

    ..
    Amazing thing is, as politics, the timing sucks.

    Every "criminal probe" into Gitmo has a short road back to Nancy Pelosi. If Dear Leader wants his health care bill through the Congress any time soon, does he really want to tie her up in depositions?

    That's the worst sin of all in this. It's a political prosecution, which is bad enough, but as a political prosecution it is burns up a lot of political capital with very little potential upside. Dear Leader does not get a huge popularity boost in the polls from this; he does not end the divisive rhetoric in and out of Congress; he does not gain any leverage over the Republicans.

    He's allowing Holder to throw a spanner into the Congressional gears when they're already starting to seize up.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Every "criminal probe" into Gitmo has a short road back to Nancy Pelosi. If Dear Leader wants his health care bill through the Congress any time soon, does he really want to tie her up in depositions?
    I've only briefly looked at the article... but it seems the proposed investigation has been structured so as to take the widest possible detour AROUND Congress. They are to investigate cases in which CIA personnel exceeded authorized techniques in regard to interrogation. Therefore what Pelosi or Bush or Cheney knew or didn't know about authorized techniques is totally irrelevant.

    In the end, Obama would be able to say that he prosecuted illegal torture, while at the same time avoiding the obvious pitfalls associated with going after the previous administration.

    The CIA has always been a useful whipping boy.

    Pure political calculation. As far as the timing... I don't see what advantage he'd get by delay.

    Of course the whole thing would do nothing in the end but weaken our intelligence services. A trade-off liberal Democrats have demonstrated they're willing to make time and again.

    ..

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Did you read this part?


    President Obama has repeatedly expressed reluctance to launch a criminal investigation of the interrogation program, but has left room for the prosecution of individuals who may have broken the law.
    The AG does not answer to the president in what investigations he will pursue. The only real power over the AG the president has is to appoint him or fire him. That's why so many got mad with the attorneys general under Bush. Properly the president has no right to tell him to how to run the justice dept. and the justice dept. is under no obligation to protect the president's image or agenda. What you are seeing here is the pursuit of justice without regard to what the president wants or how it may conflict with what the president wants to do. That is the way it should be. Conservatives ought to be glad about this news it shows that should evidence fall in his lap of presidential corruption Holder will not use his office to shield the president.

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