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Thread: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

  1. #81
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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Yeah, there's a small problem with that though.

    The acts were illegal only if the policy was illegal. If the policy is not illegal than the acts cannot be criminal because the actors were operating under color of law.

    As to the policy:

    Court Of Appeals Rules Detainees are not ?Persons? in Guantánamo Torture Suit | Center for Constitutional Rights

    Regardless of how you personally feel about the interrogation techniques (you and I are never going to agree on that point, so I'm not going to waste energy rehashing it), the unavoidable reality is that the current Administration publicly bashes Bush's policies while privately endorsing and continuing them. Those policies produced the actions that Holder now claims a desire to investigate. Those policies produced a presumption of legality on the part of the actors Holder now desires to investigate.

    To prosecute the act and not the policy, because the policy is being continued and supported, is nothing more than a political persecution.
    Wrong, and you know it. Let's go back to the original article that started all this, and quote something you know as well as I.

    A senior Justice Department official said that Holder envisioned an inquiry that would be narrow in scope, focusing on "whether people went beyond the techniques that were authorized" in Bush administration memos that liberally interpreted anti-torture laws.
    In other words, the investigation is into whether people exceeded the policy. Again, the policy itself is not part of the investigation, and is and should be a separate matter. Let's try for just a bit of honesty, shall we?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Oh? Really?

    Do Gitmo Abuses Still Continue? - ABC News


    This was earlier this year...after the new "policies" were implemented.
    You seem to be missing the point. If people go against the new policies then that is on them. The old policies of the Bush Administration called for illegal techniques. Obama called for people to follow the army field manual. So now you have people directly disobeying orders. How is this the same as what happened under the Bush Administration?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    This is not political...this is about our restoring country's integrity. Our country's ability to look beyond politics and DO THE RIGHT THING. These investigations are needed to heal the country...It is not about covering up people's lies and deceit...it is not about politicians using good troops to carry out evil unlawful acts and then cowar behind those very troops who were following the orders of those very politicians who are doing the cowaring.

    This process might just hurt alittle but in the end we will all be better off for it.
    What an incredible pile of Liberal bile. But then, spewing bile is a Liberal trait.

    Your first incredibly dumb remark is your claim that anyone committed unlawful acts; this is another because Liberals say so. Yet every investigation to date has uncovered NOTHING that can be concluded to be "unlawful".

    But the Taliban and Al Qaieda are happy to see the Obama administration desperately trying to carry out his wishes and divine war crimes for bringing these people to justice and liberating two Muslim nations from despots.

    You have to be living in an Alice in Wonderland world to watch the efforts of Liberal Democrats to divine war crimes and prosecute previous administrations because they disagree with their policies.

    But hey, bring on the prosecutions and retributions and set another new LOW standard for politics in the US. Leave it to the Democrats to continue to drag this nation down to the lowest common denominator.

    Yes folks, lets start a new lower standard where the winning party carries our witch hunts for perceived crimes and punish their political opponents by impugning them in the court of public opinion.

    Yes, you just have to love this new change Obama spoke of with this new bi-partisan joining together. Democrats will continue driving a wedge between the parties with such asinine nonsense and further drag down the opinion polls the citizens of this nation have about how they do their jobs.

    This administration has become the most divisive in recent memory. There is no bi-partisanship or efforts to be inclusive. Their idea of inclusion is that you just agree with their idiotic nonsense and roll over for them.

    Yes, Liberals lap up this swill with glee in a vacuum of any hint of thoughtful debate and instead run off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings following their leaders.

    This doesn't do anything for integrity; it makes us look like a bunch of petty dumbasses who even when we WIN, must play partisan politics in an attempt to impugn our political opponents for political gain. It’s asinine and petty; bet hey, this pretty much defines Democrats these days.

    Yes lets waste millions upon millions having this partisan witch hunt while running up vast deficits for which this administration has not been honest how they are paying for it and watch the national debt exceed GDP for the first time in our history which will make our currency about as valuable as monopoly money.

    You just cannot fabricate the level of ignorance it takes to be a Liberal Democrat these days; it is stunning and defies logic.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    The deed of torture was already criminal pre-2003. Nothing changes long standing US law
    Its stunning watching Liberals desperately re-define their version of what constitutes torture for purely political purposes.

    But alas, water boarding is not torture as defined by the UN, the definition of torture and the Geneva Conventions.

    What is equally stunning is that the efforts of good men and women to defend the very liberals attempting to impugn their actions for partisan political gain should be brought into question and divined as being illegal; you people just cannot help yourselves when it comes to disingenuous partisan hyperbolic bull****.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post

    But alas, water boarding is not torture as defined by the UN, the definition of torture and the Geneva Conventions.
    .
    America has executed people for waterboarding its soldiers, since when did it cease to be considered torture?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    America has executed people for waterboarding its soldiers, since when did it cease to be considered torture?
    We didn't. We executed Japanese soldiers for losing the war. Same reason we hung the Nazis at Nuremburg.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The truth in a nutshell, I think, is this. While the Bush laws remain on the books, no one is being tortured. As for the excuses Bush made to abrogate the Geneva Convention, they were never legal, are not being used, and are no longer honored.
    Another laughable assertion suggesting that unlawful enemy combatants dressed as civilians fighting in foreign lands have any application to Geneva Conventions.

    It is about the same despicable contorted logic we see when Durbin compares American treatment of prisoners to Nazis.

    Liberals just can't help themselves when it comes to the despicable divisive hyperbolic rhetoric that serves to drive a huge wedge between our political ideologies while blathering about the need to work together.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    America has executed people for waterboarding its soldiers, since when did it cease to be considered torture?
    It is obvious you have difficulty grasping reality when you make such farcical remarks.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    We didn't. We executed Japanese soldiers for losing the war. Same reason we hung the Nazis at Nuremburg.
    Actually, you are wrong. Will you admit it?
    Japanese soldiers were convicted of waterboarding at the Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East.
    After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as 'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning." Politifact went on to report, "A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps."
    Correction: U.S. actually did execute Japanese soldiers for waterboarding | Crooks and Liars

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    It is obvious you have difficulty grasping reality when you make such farcical remarks.
    The irony level in this post is high.

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