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Thread: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

  1. #61
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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Really you want to compared HUAC's investigation to investigations of torture? One was spurred by exaggerated nationalism. Nothing McCarthy did bettered the country but instead made it more fearful. We're talking about the rule of law here which is something the republicans used to stand for
    HUAC and McCarthy talked about the rule of law as well. You're not helping your case here. The comparison stands because it is a good comparison--criminalizing politics for political gain. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now, and all the pontifications on behalf of Dear Leader and his sycophantic AG are not going to make it right.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    HUAC and McCarthy talked about the rule of law as well. You're not helping your case here. The comparison stands because it is a good comparison--criminalizing politics for political gain. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now, and all the pontifications on behalf of Dear Leader and his sycophantic AG are not going to make it right.
    Last time I checked not having a full sense of patriotism was not illegal in this country. McCarthy was going after an imagined enemy anyone he thought was a communist. Where in our laws was it illegal to be a communist?

    Your comparison is completely without merit. You're comparing a witchhunt over something not even illegal with an investigation of a perceived war crime. Torture is illegal in this country and it should be investigated
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 08-10-09 at 12:02 AM.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Torture is illegal in this country and it should be investigated
    Enhanced interrogations are illegal? Then why does Dear Leader still permit them? Why is Leon Panetta willing to use them?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Enhanced interrogations are illegal? Then why does Dear Leader still permit them? Why is Leon Panetta willing to use them?
    Waterboarding was outlawed under the new provisions. It was still illegal when the Bush administration did it. You can fancy up torture all you want but its still illegal and should be investigated. And if "Enhanced interrogations" are investigated then maybe Holder isn't as sycophantic as you claim. BTW the supreme court ruled in Hamdan V. Rumsfeld that enemy combatants are covered under Geneva. Also in Boumediene v. Bush the supreme court decided that detainees do have a right to Habeus Corpus under US law and that Military Commissions Act created an unconstitutional suspension of it. By all means they should be investigated

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Enhanced interrogations are illegal? Then why does Dear Leader still permit them? Why is Leon Panetta willing to use them?
    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Waterboarding was outlawed under the new provisions. It was still illegal when the Bush administration did it. You can fancy up torture all you want but its still illegal and should be investigated. And if "Enhanced interrogations" are investigated then maybe Holder isn't as sycophantic as you claim. BTW the supreme court ruled in Hamdan V. Rumsfeld that enemy combatants are covered under Geneva. Also in Boumediene v. Bush the supreme court decided that detainees do have a right to Habeus Corpus under US law and that Military Commissions Act created an unconstitutional suspension of it. By all means they should be investigated
    You failed to answer my second question. All these things that are presumably illegal have been continued by Dear Leader. Why, if doing so is presumably a crime?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    You failed to answer my second question. All these things that are presumably illegal have been continued by Dear Leader. Why, if doing so is presumably a crime?
    I did answer your question they should be investigated. Just because something is continued doesn't make it any less criminal. Investigate all of it.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    I did answer your question they should be investigated. Just because something is continued doesn't make it any less criminal. Investigate all of it.
    Obama’s Torture Loopholes

    Loophole 1: Torture is prohibited only of persons detained in an “armed conflict.”
    The executive order applies only to “armed conflicts,” not counterterrorism operations.
    Interestingly enough, Dear Leader's executive order, applied during the Bush administration, would not have precluded the use of waterboarding. So Dear Leader should be investigated for continuing to permit the use of such techniques, thus becoming party to what, following your reasoning, must be regarded as a criminal conspiracy?

    Loophole 2: Only the CIA must close detention centers.
    President Obama has ordered the CIA to close detention centers, except those “used only to hold people on a short-term, transitory basis,” which can stay open indefinitely. Exactly how long a duration is “short-term” and “transitory” is unclear.
    Dear Leader wants Gitmo closed, but not Bagram Air Base. So should Holder be investigating the doings at Bagram?

    Loophole 3: Officials may still hide some detainees and abusive practices from the Red Cross.

    On the Red Cross’s monitoring of detainees, the executive order reads:

    All departments and agencies of the Federal Government shall provide the International Committee of the Red Cross with notification of, and timely access to, any individual detained in any armed conflict in the custody or under the effective control of an officer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government or detained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by a department or agency of the United States Government, consistent with Department of Defense regulations and policies.

    Here again, if a detainee is not one captured on the battlefield by US soldiers in an armed conflict, Obama’s order provides no guidance as to his fate. Government and private thugs may evidently still brutalize detainees obtained in counterterrorism operations and hide them from the Red Cross, unless and until the president issues a further executive order, or Congress passes a law, closing this loophole.
    Seems like Dear Leader is directly thumbing his nose at SCOTUS and the Hamdan and Boumediene decisions. When does AG Holder plan on issuing a subpoena to Dear Leader to explain himself?

    Obama To Revive Military Tribunals For Gitmo Detainees, With More Rights

    More thumbing of nose at SCOTUS. Such a scofflaw Dear Leader is.

    Obama Endorses Indefinite Detention Without Trial for Some Now at Guantanamo - washingtonpost.com

    Even more.

    So why is what Dear Leader doing ok when these things were crimes under Bush? Why is only a crime for it to have been done by the Bush Administration?

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Enhanced interrogations are illegal? Then why does Dear Leader still permit them? Why is Leon Panetta willing to use them?
    I love people who use euphemisms to make things sound less bad. EIT's are inflicting pain to gain information, or, in other words, torture. President Obama does not make laws, and the country should not be using them. If we are, we need to stop. One way to ensure that every thing is on the up and up is to investigate.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I love people who use euphemisms to make things sound less bad. EIT's are inflicting pain to gain information, or, in other words, torture. President Obama does not make laws, and the country should not be using them. If we are, we need to stop. One way to ensure that every thing is on the up and up is to investigate.
    So when is Holder planning on investigating Bagram Air Base (theater headquarters for Task Force 6-26, commanded by General Stanley McChrystal, appointed by Dear Leader to be top commander in Afghanistan)? When is Holder planning on investigating Dear Leader's current policy on indefinite detention without trial?

    All these laws that Bush's Administration presumably broke, Dear Leader's Administration is currently breaking. Where's the investigation of that?
    Last edited by celticlord; 08-10-09 at 09:06 AM.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    So when is Holder planning on investigating Bagram Air Base (theater headquarters for Task Force 6-26, commanded by General Stanley McChrystal, appointed by Dear Leader to be top commander in Afghanistan)? When is Holder planning on investigating Dear Leader's current policy on indefinite detention without trial?

    All these laws that Bush's Administration presumably broke, Dear Leader's Administration is currently breaking. Where's the investigation of that?
    You know me better than that. I firmly believe that if there is credible reason to suspect wrongdoing, it should be investigated, no matter who it is. Stop obfuscating the issue. The wrong way to handle possible wrongdoing is to point to some one else doing something wrong and use that as a justification.

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