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Thread: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Making everyone afraid for their job, because of some unknown BS don't work. That's personel management 101.

    You're sending a message to all the people who serve in the intel services, as well as the military, that their government won't back them up for doing what the government told them to do. There's no more a disfunctional way to run things than that.
    Short and sweet,,, & Straight to the point.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Article I Section 9 of the Constitution precludes the enacting of ex post facto laws. Congress is prohibited from criminalizing an act after the fact then prosecuting the original actors.

    The deed done in 2003 is not retroactively made criminal in 2009--no amount of pontification or prevarication by Queen Nancy or any other Anti-Republican can alter that Constitutional reality.
    The deed of torture was already criminal pre-2003. Nothing changes long standing US law

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Making everyone afraid for their job, because of some unknown BS don't work. That's personel management 101.

    You're sending a message to all the people who serve in the intel services, as well as the military, that their government won't back them up for doing what the government told them to do. There's no more a disfunctional way to run things than that.
    Unknown BS? You're sending a message that there are no rules and that the rule of law we have in this country shouldn't apply to anyone in government. They knew the law before they did it. That's why we have laws for conscientious objectors. Many in the CIA and FBI quit because of being told to do things illegal. Many in the FBI were prepared to quit over the Alberto Gonzales, John Ashcroft hospital visit. If your boss tells you to do something which you know is illegal that doesn't provide you any cover

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not political? This is nothing but political.

    What is going to be created, is an environment where people are doing nothing more than CYA. When you have a group of people conducting CYA strategies and only doing the minimum so they don't get fired, nothing will get done. WOuld you run a business with people who only do the minimum?
    I certainly wouldn't run a business where the employees torture people just because someone told them to. Protecting the torturers is not a good enough excuse to end this investigation.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    The deed of torture was already criminal pre-2003. Nothing changes long standing US law
    Yeah, and torture has specific elements, all of which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Nothing which has come to light satisfies that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah, and torture has specific elements, all of which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Nothing which has come to light satisfies that.
    They admitted to waterboarding. Waterboarding was prosecuted by the United States in WW2 as a war crime when the Japanese used it. Waterboarding was prosecuted in this country in 1983 when a texas sheriff and 3 of his deputies used it. Reagan's DOJ prosecuted the case. So yes torture is torture and we did torture in contravention of US and International Law

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    The deed of torture was already criminal pre-2003. Nothing changes long standing US law
    Exactly why waterboarding was not and is not a crime. No laws were broken--it is only that Queen Nancy and her sock puppet in the White House Dear Leader need distractions to avoid being called to account for their inability to govern and lead this nation.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Exactly why waterboarding was not and is not a crime. No laws were broken--it is only that Queen Nancy and her sock puppet in the White House Dear Leader need distractions to avoid being called to account for their inability to govern and lead this nation.
    You didn't make any sense Celtic. Waterboarding is a crime and is illegal in this country. This has nothing to do with "dear leader". Waterboarding is a war crime that we've prosecuted since WW2 and is something we've prosecuted in this country under Reagan.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    They admitted to waterboarding. Waterboarding was prosecuted by the United States in WW2 as a war crime when the Japanese used it.
    On prisoners of war. The terrorists warehoused at Gitmo are not prisoners of war, and thus this precedent does not apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Waterboarding was prosecuted in this country in 1983 when a texas sheriff and 3 of his deputies used it. Reagan's DOJ prosecuted the case.
    Against criminals being interrogated as part of a criminal investigation. The terrorists warehoused at Gitmo are not criminals, confessions are not being sought, and so this precedent also does not apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    So yes torture is torture and we did torture in contravention of US and International Law
    Torture is torture. Waterboarding is not torture, and even if it were, torturing terrorists violates no international law.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    They admitted to waterboarding. Waterboarding was prosecuted by the United States in WW2 as a war crime when the Japanese used it. Waterboarding was prosecuted in this country in 1983 when a texas sheriff and 3 of his deputies used it. Reagan's DOJ prosecuted the case. So yes torture is torture and we did torture in contravention of US and International Law
    You apparently don't understand what "elements" are and how the facts of each case must establish them beyond a reasonable doubt. Labels like "waterboarding" are meaningless.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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