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Thread: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are the one making the claim.

    By the way, the whole Pelosi/CIA thing ended up a draw, since it turned out that the CIA's notes on meetings where definitely not always accurate. See here for details: Pelosi’s Tortured Denials | FactCheck.org
    It's my opinion. It didn't warrant a personal attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    There's no sign of concern for this fella.
    The whole premise of this Story is the Criminal Proscecution of the C.I.A.,,, for the Interrogations of trash like this...He happens to one of the scum that's Highlighted.

    Maybe the Libs are worried over some other sleaze-ball then...

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    This is not political...this is about our restoring country's integrity. Our country's ability to look beyond politics and DO THE RIGHT THING. These investigations are needed to heal the country...It is not about covering up people's lies and deceit...it is not about politicians using good troops to carry out evil unlawful acts and then cowar behind those very troops who were following the orders of those very politicians who are doing the cowaring.

    This process might just hurt alittle but in the end we will all be better off for it.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    This is not political...this is about our restoring country's integrity. Our country's ability to look beyond politics and DO THE RIGHT THING. These investigations are needed to heal the country...It is not about covering up people's lies and deceit...it is not about politicians using good troops to carry out evil unlawful acts and then cowar behind those very troops who were following the orders of those very politicians who are doing the cowaring.

    This process might just hurt alittle but in the end we will all be better off for it.
    I'm more interested in maintaining our Country's Safety, and Defending us all, from Suicidal Religious Freaks. As far as I'm concerned, we're at War. With some of the worst savages still crawling around on the face of this Earth.

    The C.I.A. has my permission to do whatever is necessary to protect America.
    Last edited by Realist1; 08-09-09 at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    I'm more interested in maintaining our Country's Safety, and Defending us all, from Suicidal Religious Freaks. As far as I'm concerned, we're at War. With some of the worst savages still crawling around on the face of this Earth.

    The C.I.A. has my permission to do whatever is necessary to protect America.
    To do whatever is necessary, even if that leads to false information that could misdirect, or even kill thousands? Torture is not just immoral, or illegal, but also the absolute worst tactic to use when trying to gather information.

    I wish some would someday wake up and smell the coffee of reality, but the most precise intelligence we have gotten to date was gathered through interrogations by FBI professional interogators who did not need to use harsh treatments.

    I think it would be of interest for people to know that the most celebrated interrogator in Word War II was a German named [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff"]Hanns Scharff [/ame]who:

    ..was a German Luftwaffe interrogator during the Second World War. He has been called the "Master Interrogator" of the Luftwaffe and possibly all of Nazi Germany; he has also been praised for his contribution in shaping U.S. interrogation techniques after the war. Merely an Obergefreiter (the equivalent of a senior lance corporal), he was charged with interrogating every German-captured American fighter pilot during the war after his becoming an interrogation officer in 1943. He is highly praised for the success of his techniques, especially considering he never used physical means to obtain the required information. No evidence exists he even raised his voice in the presence of a prisoner of war (POW). Scharff’s interrogation techniques were so effective that he was often called upon to assist other German interrogators in their questioning of bomber pilots and aircrews, including those crews and fighter pilots from countries other than the United States. Additionally, Scharff was charged with questioning V.I.P.s (Very Important Prisoners) that funneled through the interrogation center, namely senior officers and world-famous fighter aces.

    After the end of WWII, Scharff was invited by the United States Air Force to give lectures on his interrogation techniques and first-hand experiences. The U.S. military later incorporated Scharff’s methods into its curriculum at its interrogation schools. Scharff's methods are still taught in US Army interrogation schools.
    On the other hand, we did send Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi to Egypt where the result was the now knowingly false Iraq-al-Qaeda connections. That worked out real well didn't it?
    Powell aide says torture helped build Iraq war case
    Al-Libi's claim that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's government had trained al Qaeda operatives in producing chemical and biological weapons appeared in the October 2002 speech then-President Bush gave when pushing Congress to authorize military action against Iraq. It also was part of Powell's February 2003 presentation to the United Nations on the case for war

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    The whole premise of this Story is the Criminal Proscecution of the C.I.A.,,, for the Interrogations of trash like this...He happens to one of the scum that's Highlighted.
    Maybe the Libs are worried over some other sleaze-ball then...
    It could be about the rule of law etc and not about any person in particular.
    Obviously, YMMV.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    "Just folliwng orders", isn't a defense, true, but as hiswoman pointed out it isn't about following, "orders", it's about following the, "rules", as they knew them.
    A distinction without a difference
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There was no reason for these agents to think they were conducting themselves in a manner that was contrary to standing SOP and policy of the United States government for over 40 years.
    Funny that they should have asked for explicit clarification for a decades old policy. Also it should be noted that teh WH made special efforts to produce documents to explain the legal basis of a decades old practice.
    Maybe you are somewhat mistaken.
    YMMV
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    To do whatever is necessary, even if that leads to false information that could misdirect, or even kill thousands? Torture is not just immoral, or illegal, but also the absolute worst tactic to use when trying to gather information.

    I wish some would someday wake up and smell the coffee of reality, but the most precise intelligence we have gotten to date was gathered through interrogations by FBI professional interogators who did not need to use harsh treatments.

    I think it would be of interest for people to know that the most celebrated interrogator in Word War II was a German named Hanns Scharff who:


    On the other hand, we did send Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi to Egypt where the result was the now knowingly false Iraq-al-Qaeda connections. That worked out real well didn't it?
    Powell aide says torture helped build Iraq war case
    Do nothing isn't an option. And we've already had thousands killed. If I knew that our Intelligence people had a known Terrorist in custody that had info that could stop the slaughter of 1000's of our people...And they didn't use all means at their disposal to retreive that Info,,,then, I'd demand they be Prosecuted. But NOT for doing their Duty.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realist1 View Post
    Do nothing isn't an option. And we've already had thousands killed. If I knew that our Intelligence people had a known Terrorist in custody that had info that could stop the slaughter of 1000's of our people...And they didn't use all means at their disposal to retreive that Info,,,then, I'd demand they be Prosecuted. But NOT for doing their Duty.
    Except I think you have watched 24 too much. Turn off the TV for once and actually listen to what the professionals have said, repeatedly for years now, that these "24" moments just do not exist. If one did exist, nothing changes, as "enhanced" interogation methods simply do not work, got that? They do NOT work. This is a fantasy idea fit for TV world, but we are talking about the real world. Ali Soufan got Abu Zubaydah to talk, without resorting to any "enhanced" techniques, but rather by using the same methods law enforcement have used for decades.

    Israel, which has a longer history than anyone in dealing with terrorism, and your "24" fantasy, has long since stopped using torture. What they have found is that regular investigative work, just like the FBI and police do everyday, is more effective. It really is simple, and not rocket science for god's sake.

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    Re: Criminal investigation into CIA treatment of detainees expected [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    as "enhanced" interogation methods simply do not work, got that? They do NOT work
    Admiral Dennis Blair disagrees with you. He is on record as saying they did work.

    Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

    Leon Panetta believes they can work, and indicated as such in his confirmation hearing.

    Panetta Open to Tougher Methods in Some C.I.A. Interrogation

    Even Dear Leader acknowledges the techniques work.

    Obama Calls It "Torture" on Prime Time | Rights and Liberties | AlterNet

    "And that's why I put an end to these practices. I'm absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do - not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees who were subjected to this treatment, but because we could have gotten this information in other ways - in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are," Obama said, speaking about his decision to outlaw torturous interrogation techniques during his first days in office.

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