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Thread: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

  1. #101
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Man it didn't take the irrelvant quitter long to show her true colors with this "Death panel" fearmonger scare tatic crap...along with again using her child as a prop to rile the any scared mob with the trash.

    She is now she is backtracking....what a trash talking hussy failure. What a Mavrick.

    She deserves no more comment...
    I'll hold you to it.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    Man it didn't take the irrelvant quitter long to show her true colors with this "Death panel" fearmonger scare tatic crap...along with again using her child as a prop to rile the any scared mob with the trash.

    She is now she is backtracking....what a trash talking hussy failure. What a Mavrick.

    She deserves no more comment...
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'll hold you to it.
    Me too.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    But this isn't true. But alas, if you are a gullible willing supplicant of Government largess, then I can see how you would desperately argue to become a ward of the State.

    The REALITY is that UHC does indeed limit what is covered under the plan and their decisions result in less specialization, doctor shortages and long waiting lists for specialized care and operations.

    The reasons are OBVIOUS only to those who do not desperately cling to the fantasy that Governments are well managed cost effective systems that are better equipped to decide what is best for its citizens.

    Isn’t it funny how under Bush many Liberals where highly skeptical of Government and anti-Government now wish to suggest that Government is the best source to handle our healthcare needs and should be trusted?
    Actually, I do agree with you. I don't think I could live under a 100% government run healthcare system. With the possible exception of the French system, which despite some flaws, is one of the best I've seen.

    The ideal UHC system to me is the one we have here in Switzerland. I strongly believe this is the only system that would work well in the US too. It's the perfect compromise between the government's ideal of covering everyone and the people's need to handle their own healthcare privately.

    The only drawback is that it's a lot more expensive than your average UHC, since it's based on private healthcare. If you guys can do a better job at controlling the rising costs of healthcare than we do, then you might have a winner.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Actually, I do agree with you. I don't think I could live under a 100% government run healthcare system. With the possible exception of the French system, which despite some flaws, is one of the best I've seen.

    The ideal UHC system to me is the one we have here in Switzerland. I strongly believe this is the only system that would work well in the US too. It's the perfect compromise between the government's ideal of covering everyone and the people's need to handle their own healthcare privately.

    The only drawback is that it's a lot more expensive than your average UHC, since it's based on private healthcare. If you guys can do a better job at controlling the rising costs of healthcare than we do, then you might have a winner.
    The Swiss system is plagued by some of the same problems as the US system. Private insurance companies have way higher administrative costs and costs in general, pushing up prices. On top of that the big pharma and insurance lobbies are prevent any reforms that might hurt their bottom line and are pretty much allowed to set their own prices. This in all makes the Swiss system the second most expensive in the world, and by far the most expensive in Europe. I read not long ago, that the big insurance companies and big pharma had successfully blocked a referendum to abandon the present system in favour of a public option.. now that is power.

    The only good thing about the Swiss system is that is a UHC system.. you cant not have healthcare insurance of some sort. Another good thing is that unlike the US system, the Swiss actually in many areas get "bang for the buck" as seen via health statistics.

    For me the best system is a public system with an alternative private system. This creates competition and cost comparison.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    You know what you are fighting against but what are you fighting for? This vid is an interview with Wendell Potter who was head of PR for cigna for many years. Take 37 minutes and watch it.



    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI"]YouTube - BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Wendell Potter | PBS[/ame]



    He goes into the PR blitz he and others put together to discredit SICKO and how they put pressure on ALL congressmen to ignore the public outcry that followed. For extra credit the entire movie is here.

    [ame=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6646340600856118396]Sicko.avi[/ame]

  6. #106
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The Swiss system is plagued by some of the same problems as the US system. Private insurance companies have way higher administrative costs and costs in general, pushing up prices. On top of that the big pharma and insurance lobbies are prevent any reforms that might hurt their bottom line and are pretty much allowed to set their own prices. This in all makes the Swiss system the second most expensive in the world, and by far the most expensive in Europe. I read not long ago, that the big insurance companies and big pharma had successfully blocked a referendum to abandon the present system in favour of a public option.. now that is power.

    The only good thing about the Swiss system is that is a UHC system.. you cant not have healthcare insurance of some sort. Another good thing is that unlike the US system, the Swiss actually in many areas get "bang for the buck" as seen via health statistics.

    For me the best system is a public system with an alternative private system. This creates competition and cost comparison.

    Oh, it definitely is expensive. But the Swiss, like many Americans, do not trust government and do not want a government run healthcare system. What we have is the best system for this country and one that is acceptable to the population's tendency to keep government out of their lives as much as possible. I'm willing to entertain the idea of a dual system, public and private, but I'm not sure it would change anything in terms of lowering the costs here.

    I just think our system would be a good option for the US, at least as a transitional phase.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No, it's not.

    Setting aside the fact that viewership among a small segment is a poor proxy for support, a large part of the reason why Fox is more popular than the other networks is because it has a larger share of its target market, while the other networks are forced to split theirs.

    Imagine a town that likes ice cream. 70% like vanilla and 30% like chocolate. Now imagine that there is only one supplier of chocolate ice cream, but 5 suppliers of vanilla, each of whom controls 10-20% of the 70% share of vanilla.

    The supplier of chocolate ice cream will be the largest supplier in the town. Does that mean that the majority of the town likes chocolate?
    This is a good point. However, I have a hard time thinking of a right leaning news source that makes an attempt at objectivity and open discussion instead of propaganda. Can you think of one. Ideally, a good news source would not be identifiable as having any political leaning, but I'm not that optimistic.

    Regardless, my main concern is that the current state of the news in this country is pitiful. Reading these forums it is clear that many people turn to Olbermann or Glenn Beck for information and believe them. Others believe FOX (or MSNBC) is the only place to find the truth. I find that horrifying. Think about what that means for America. A multi-million dollar propaganda company is who much of the voting public turn to for information. I mean, a lot of these "Newscasters" don't just spin, the flat out lie. And there seems to be no consequences for their actions. It’s like a big portion of the American public enjoys being lied to, and the sport of “our side vs. their side” is more important than truly understanding issues. Politics should require more intellectual investment than being a fan of a college football team.

  8. #108
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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by HematomaJoe View Post
    This is a good point. However, I have a hard time thinking of a right leaning news source that makes an attempt at objectivity and open discussion instead of propaganda. Can you think of one. Ideally, a good news source would not be identifiable as having any political leaning, but I'm not that optimistic.
    I don't think that any source that leans any direction is particularly trustworthy. Accordingly, I don't trust much of anything.

    Regardless, my main concern is that the current state of the news in this country is pitiful. Reading these forums it is clear that many people turn to Olbermann or Glenn Beck for information and believe them. Others believe FOX (or MSNBC) is the only place to find the truth. I find that horrifying. Think about what that means for America. A multi-million dollar propaganda company is who much of the voting public turn to for information. I mean, a lot of these "Newscasters" don't just spin, the flat out lie. And there seems to be no consequences for their actions. It’s like a big portion of the American public enjoys being lied to, and the sport of “our side vs. their side” is more important than truly understanding issues. Politics should require more intellectual investment than being a fan of a college football team.
    I've never understood how people can stand to get their news from the TV. Even setting aside the blowhards on all the channels, it's just so slow. When you watch news on the TV, you're getting maybe 5-10 stories in the span of a half-hour, all of which are picked by someone else. In that same time, I can read 20-30 news stories that I find interesting and relevant, some from liberal sources, others from conservative.

    In a normal day, I'll check NYT, Drudge, WaPo, WSJ, Google News, LAT, and Politico. If I have time, I'll check instapundit and kos. Between that, I see the same story from 2 or 3 perspectives and catch half a dozen stories that are exclusive to one source or another.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    wtf? What does she mean by that? Under UHC everyone is worthy of health care. That's the whole point of UHC.
    All UHC systems ration health care in some manner or another.

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    Re: Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you claim that this would ever happen, you are wallowing in a sea of making **** up without any regard for reality.
    If you think that it can't happen you are drinking the kool-aid.

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