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Physicians speak out on health care bill

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celticlord

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Doctors opposing health care bill jam town hall meeting | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”
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Seems like doctors around here do not want to see another broken system foisted on them.
 
They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality
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It won't lower costs that is for sure.

It'll need increased public spending and if it is 90 billion in UK with a population of 65 million. It'll go into a heck lot more for a country with 300 million.

If doctors do not support it, no way will NHS go through in US. You need them on side.
 
It's kind of hard to support or not support a bill that hasn't even left commitee, has not been made public, and hasn't come up for a vote.
 
I stand corrected!
 
And I have no plans on reading it! Because it will likely change numerous times before a final version is passed by both chambers.
 
stekim said:
And I have no plans on reading it! Because it will likely change numerous times before a final version is passed by both chambers.
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This is how the lunatic left proposes to have new ideas. By deliberate and willful and even blind ignorance.

:doh:doh
 
Left? Me? What the hell are you talking about? I'll read the synopsis of the final bill. No need to read the initial bill. That's not what is likely to pass. I have better things to do than read a bill that is not going to become law. Plus, what do you think I'm going to do about it? My Senators and Congressman are voting against. My work here is done.
 
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stekim said:
And I have no plans on reading it! Because it will likely change numerous times before a final version is passed by both chambers.
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Here's the Cliff's Notes version for ya. Part 1

“Pg 22 of the Health Care Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123- THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 – YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 – The “Health Choices Commissioner” will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152- HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 53- Severability (KEY GEM)

“If any provision of the Act, or any application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of the provisions of this Act and the application of the provision to any other person or circumstance shall not be affected.”

Pg 58 – Govt will have real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 lines 21-24- Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 – Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 – Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7- Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example: Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals. for Govt HC plan.

PG 85 Line 7 – Specs of Benefit Levels For Plans. #AARP members- Your Health care WILL be rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18- Medicaid-Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16- RE: Doctors- The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/ payroll $400k & above who doesn’t provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

PG 150 Lines 9-13- Biz w payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 -Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15- “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it actualy says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24-Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will be affected. Expendable.

Pg 241 Line 6-8- Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally sets the value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131-Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141- Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

PG 272 SEC. 1145- TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151- The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems “preventable re-admissions.”

Pg 298 Lines 9-11- Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission? Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20- OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

pg 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 Lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 – Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! WTF. My sister has downs syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191- Govt creates more bureaucracy – “Telehealth Advisory Committee.” Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates “Advanced Care Planning Consultations.”

PG 425 the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

PG 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9: An “advanced care planning consult” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12: “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15- The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Pg 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.”
 
stekim said:
And I have no plans on reading it! Because it will likely change numerous times before a final version is passed by both chambers.
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Here's the Cliff's Notes version for ya. Part 2

PG 502 Section 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. – Hello Big Brother – Literally.

PG 502 Line 5-18 Government builds the “Center” to conduct, support, & synthesize research to define our HealthCare Services.

PG 503 Line 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.

PG 503 Line 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the US including your data.

PG 504 Line 6-10 The “Center” will collect data both published & unpublished (that means public & your private info)

PG 506 Line 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data

PG 518 Line 21-25 The Commission will have input from HealthCare consumer reps – Can you say unions & ACORN?

PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.

PG 525-620 deals with the Government basically taking over nursing homes,

PGs 525-620 deals with the Govt basically taking over nursing homes,long-term care facilities (think assisted living) through regulations of the facilities, the owners of sd facilities, the employees of sd facilities and even the land owners of that sd facilities reside on. Additionally as you read these 90+ pages you can come to the conclusion that any Health related svcs will be determined and rationed by the Govt for our senior citizens and others in nursing homes. This one post should do enough to raise awareness of the control the Govt is exerting over the older population of American citizens.

PG 620 Line 1-9 The Government will define, prioritize, and nationalize your Health Care Services.

PG 621 Lines 20-25 Government will define what Quality means in HealthCare. Since when does Government know about quality?

PG 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the quality Standards Government will transfer $$ from to other Government Trust Funds. More Taxes.

PG 624 “Quality” measures shall be designed to assess outcomes & functional status of patients.

G 628 Section 1443 Government will give “Multi-Stake Holders” Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of “Quality” Measures.

PG 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups including Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HealthCare quality.

PG 632 Lines 14-25 The Government may implement any “Quality measure” of HealthCare Services as they see fit.

PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9 The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Quality Measures” for Physician Services & Dialysis Services.

PG 635 – 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision – Government wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Government.

PG 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated Infections – Looks okay.

PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency – Government will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you’ll live.

PG 676-686 Government will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, including teaching hospitals.

PG 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and Abuse. You mean the Government with an $18 mil website?

PGs 701-704 Section 1619 If your part of HealthCare plan that isn’t in Government HealthCare Exchange but you qualify for Federal aid, no payment.

705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secretary gets complaints (ACORN) on HealthCare provider or supplier, Government can do background check.

G 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HealthCare providers/suppliers admittance into HealthCare Exchange.

Pg 719-720 Section 1637 ANY Doctor who orders durable medical equipment or home medical services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.

PG 722 Section 1639 Government Mandates Doctors must have face-to-face with patient to certify patient for Home Health Services.

PG 724 Lines 16-22 Government reserves right to apply face-to-face certification for patient to ANY other HealthCare service.

PG 724 23-25 PG 725 1-5 The same Government certifications will apply to medicaid & CHIP (your kids) Pg 735 lines 16-25 For law enforcement purposes, the Secretary of Health & Human Services will give Attorney General access to ALL data.

PG 740-757 Government sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured (That’s your tax dollars peeps) Pg 757-762 Fed Government will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)

Page 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin Pg 765 Section 1711 Government will require Preventative Services including vaccines. (Choice?)

Pg 768 Section 1713 Government – Nurse Home Visitation Services (Hello union paybacks)

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services – “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.” Government Abortions anyone?

Pg 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Services include-economic self-sufficiency, employment advancement, school-readiness.

Pg 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services – “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.” Government ABORTIONS anyone?

Pg 770 SEC 1714 Federal Government mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Say abortion & State Sovereign.

Pg 789-797 Government will set & mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs will brought to market. Bye innovation

Pgs 797-800 SEC. 1744 PAYMENTS for grad medical education. The government will now control Drs education. PG 801 Sec 1751 The Government will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!

Pg 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc. required to register. Government takes over private payment system.

Page 820-824 Sec 1801 Government will identify individuals ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal finances.

Pg 824-829 SEC. 1802. Government Sets up Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.

PG 829-833 Government will impose a fee on ALL private health insurance plans including self insured to pay for Trust Fund!

PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Government for Trust Fund shall be treated as if they were taxes.

838-840 Government will design & implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids & families expecting kids.

PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Program includes Government coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!

Pg 859 Government will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes thats Billion.

PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HealthCare for 2 years for part loan repayment.

PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.

PG 898 The Government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. to ensure supply of public health professionals.

PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of officers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.

898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.

901 The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HealthCare Draft?

PG 910 The Government will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.

PG 913-914 Government starts a HealthCare affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.

PG 915 SEC. 2251. Government MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency training for HealthCare professionals.

Pg 932 The Government will establish Preventative & Wellness Trust fund – intial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.

PG 935 21-22 Government will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control You!!

PG 936 Government will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Performance Standards” Tell me what to eat?

PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Government? Offices of Surgeon General -Public Health Services, Minority Health, Women’s Health – THIS MEANS TAX DOLLARS USED TO PAY FOR ALL ABORTIONS.

PG 950- 980 BIG Government core public health infrastructure includes workforce capacity, lab systems; health information systems, etc

PG 993 Government will establish school based health clinics. Your kids wont have a chance.

PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment. Say Government Brainwash!

PG 1001 The Government will establish a National Medical Device Registry. Will you be tracked?

PG 1003 9-11 National Medical Dev Reg ‘‘(iii) other postmarket device surveillance activities” you WILL be tracked.

PG 1018 States give up some of their State Sovereignty.
 
stekim said:
Left? Me? What the hell are you talking about? I'll read the synopsis of the final bill. No need to read the initial bill. That's not what is likely to pass. I have better things to do than read a bill that is not going to become law. Plus, what do you think I'm going to do about it? My Senators and Congressman are voting against. My work here is done.
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There's 98 other Senators and 434 other Congressmen that need persuading. OUR work is just getting started.
 
celticlord said:
There's 98 other Senators and 434 other Congressmen that need persuading. OUR work is just getting started.
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Well get to it. I took care of mine, you take care of yours. Somehow I don't think your Congressman cares what I think seeing as how I can't vote for him.
 
Anybody mind telling me what the AMA (you know, that group that represents a vast majority of physicians) feels about a national health care system? Thanks.
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
Anybody mind telling me what the AMA (you know, that group that represents a vast majority of physicians) feels about a national health care system? Thanks.
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This is after all NOT a coalition of physicians, but rather the sentiment of a few physicians at this one Republicans meeting. In a state that has the worst health care of all, with the highest rate of uninsured. Real good source to believe.

On the other hand.....AMA has endorsed reform. Got that folks? The American Medical Association has endorsed reform.

American Medical Association
The AMA Vision for Health System Reform

No one said that achieving meaningful health system reform this year was going to be easy. But tackling the tough challenges is something the American Medical Association (AMA) has been doing for 162 years.

As the nation’s largest organization representing physicians from every state and nearly every medical specialty—and the patients in their care—we are committed to achieving health system reform this year that:

* Protects the sacred relationship between patients and their physicians, without interference by insurance companies or the government
* Provides affordable health insurance for all through a choice of plans and eliminates denials for pre-existing conditions
* Promotes quality, prevention and wellness initiatives
* Repeals the Medicare physician payment system that harms seniors' access to care
* Eases the crushing weight of medical liability and insurance company bureaucracy

Physicians, patients, policymakers and others have found common ground on real health system improvements. Difficult issues must still be resolved. But it’s time for results, not rhetoric. It's time to shift our focus from arguing about differences to working together to resolve them.

The status quo is unacceptable. America's patients and physicians deserve better. The AMA will press on until a better health system is a reality for all Americans.
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sam_w said:
This is after all NOT a coalition of physicians, but rather the sentiment of a few physicians at this one Republicans meeting. In a state that has the worst health care of all, with the highest rate of uninsured. Real good source to believe.

On the other hand.....AMA has endorsed reform. Got that folks? The American Medical Association has endorsed reform.

American Medical Association
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It's hard to argue with the anti-democracy Conservatives on this board that believe the opinions of a small group of people is worth more than the majority of America.
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
It's hard to argue with the anti-democracy Conservatives on this board that believe the opinions of a small group of people is worth more than the majority of America.
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Hence why they have engaged in such tactics as fear mongering (Kill granny euthanasia?), as well as the discredited tactic of shouting down townhalls so that no discussion can be conducted. It is the tactic used when you have no ideas, or no proposals.

Is it also not a sign of just how poor one's argument is that they have to tell bold face lies? Kill granny, government is going to access your checking account. Doctors won't decide treatment, a government bureaucrat in Washington will. It will outlaw private insurance. 120 million will lose their insurance. The lies just keep coming.

Why can't they just debate the existing issues with facts and truth, and alternative options?
 
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DarkWizard12 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/politics/11health.html?_r=1

you were saying....?
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Good question, I wasn't saying anything. I was asking a question that I didn't know the answer to.

That being said, I just google searched it and your news article is old.

From NBC's Mark Murray
In what appears to be a pretty significant development in the fight over health care, the American Medical Association has written House Ways and Means Committee Chairman
Charlie Rangel

a letter supporting the $1 trillion-plus Democratic House health-care bill.

"On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support for H.R. 3200, the 'America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009,'" says Dr. Michael Maves, the AMA's executive vice president and CEO.

"This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform. We urge members of the House Education and Labor, Energy and Commerce, and Ways and Means Committees to favorably report H.R. 3200 for consideration by the full House."
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This is from July, your article is from June.

AMA backs House health-care bill - First Read - msnbc.com
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
Good question, I wasn't saying anything. I was asking a question that I didn't know the answer to.

That being said, I just google searched it and your news article is old.



This is from July, your article is from June.

AMA backs House health-care bill - First Read - msnbc.com
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So within a month, a rather profound organization has done a 180 on a very high-profile issue,...not to be a spoil sport but don't you find that a little weird?
 
I thank all those who have laid out in detail what President Obama and his Democratic cohorts have in mind for this so called 'Health Bill'.

Personally I would have thought the more sensible way to would be to offer unilateral health care to the legal youth of the USA initially.

Then after a suitable length of time has passed (to fine tune the system) the rest of the legal population could also be included.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
So within a month, a rather profound organization has done a 180 on a very high-profile issue,...not to be a spoil sport but don't you find that a little weird?
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Spoil sport? Please. I just asked where the AMA stood in relation to the issue at present. You showed how they felt in the past. I showed how they feel now. I apologize for being the spoil sport. By the way, I forgot the AMA doesn't have the right to change its mind.
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
Anybody mind telling me what the AMA (you know, that group that represents a vast majority of physicians) feels about a national health care system? Thanks.
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Why does it matter if the AMA supports this or not?

The AMA was part of the problem before the house bill was ever drawn up.
They support limiting the licensing of doctors which artificially raises doctors salaries.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Why does it matter if the AMA supports this or not?

The AMA was part of the problem before the house bill was ever drawn up.
They support limiting the licensing of doctors which artificially raises doctors salaries.
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You read the OP? Celticlord is trying to say that a few doctor represents the whole group. The AMA is more representative of doctors than a couple of doctors in a town hall meeting.

In addition, I don't understand your position. They artificially raise doctors salaries so they support doctors and doctors like them? How does that affect what I said? In addition, they're not supporting legislation that'll (according to public opinion) lower the average wealth of doctors in the country. Shouldn't that satisfy both Democrats and Republicans? Democrats because the rich get poorer (relatively) and Republicans because doctors' salaries are no longer artificially inflated.
 
sam_w said:
On the other hand.....AMA has endorsed reform. Got that folks? The American Medical Association has endorsed reform.

American Medical Association
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The majority of Americans want reform. This has nothing to do with the bloated monstrosity Obama it trying to push. I am certain the AMA also knows this, which is why they said "reform" and not the HCB.
 
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