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Thread: Physicians speak out on health care bill

  1. #31
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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    2002 is where it rose.

    And has been rising ever since, it is currently stands at around 90 billion roughly and seeing i do not trust the Govt. to give us the truth. The cost is probably much much higher but they are just hiding the true costs.

    And why shouldn't they be paid what they are worth?
    And i may dislike Thatcher on some issues but the more i see of this disgusting Labour party, the more i miss her.
    So you are saying that the UK healthcare costs rose hmm 300%+ in a very short time to now be the most expensive in the world? What planet are you on?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are saying that the UK healthcare costs rose hmm 300%+ in a very short time to now be the most expensive in the world? What planet are you on?
    When the NHS was launched in 1948 it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £9 billion at today’s value). In 2007/8 it received 10 times that amount - more than £90 billion.

    This equates to an average rise in spending over the full 60-year period of about 3% a year once inflation has been taken into account. However, in recent years investment levels have been double that to fund a major modernisation programme.

    The money to pay for the NHS comes directly from taxation
    About the NHS
    Last edited by Laila; 08-08-09 at 11:48 AM.


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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    And? This in no way proves your point. 90 billion pounds is nothing compared to what the US uses and it gets even worse if you do the numbers per captia. You claim that the UK has a more expensive healthcare system than the US because it is UHC, and have yet failed to prove it even in the slightest.. in fact.. if you think the US uses less than 90 billion pounds on healthcare.. then..In 2007, the US passed 2.2 TRILLION in healthcare costs.. so while the US has about 5 times the population of the UK, that would mean if you were correct, that the US healthcare cost would be under 450 billion pounds.. Now I know the US dollar is in the toilet, but sorry it is not 4+ dollars to 1 pound...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    No need to read the initial bill.
    If you don't read the initial bill then how do you know what's good or bad in it and what needs to stay or be removed? People have to let their representatives know what they support and what they don't.

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You claim that the UK has a more expensive healthcare system than the US because it is UHC
    Absolute tosh.

    It'll need increased public spending and if it is 90 billion in UK with a population of 65 million. It'll go into a heck lot more for a country with 300 million.

    If doctors do not support it, no way will NHS go through in US. You need them on side.


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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Doctors opposing health care bill jam town hall meeting | Houston & Texas News | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

    Seems like doctors around here do not want to see another broken system foisted on them.
    Many thanks.

    Physicians in the US do however generally support health care reform, that means not just the tort reform small change that the Republicans want to go ahead with but actually expanding coverage everywhere.

    Doctors and Nurses are tired of the enormous bureaucracy that comes with a private insurance system where some HMO bureaucrat gets in the way between Doctor and patient.

    Inefficiency is un-American and negotiating for cover from your sick bed restricts your freedom to live your life. Thats why the current system is fundamentally un-American.

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Absolute tosh.
    It is? How so?

    You are claiming the UK system first of all is expensive.. compared to the US system it is dirt cheap and yet covers everyone.

    Also, you seem (correct me if I am wrong) to think that the UK system of healthcare has risen dramatically in cost or something over the last few years to decades. Compared to what? If we compare the cost rise in the UK system and the US system, I would bet quite a bit that the US system has risen in costs by a considerable margin higher than the UK system.

    Go to WHO's website and there statistical information.. it is quite informative.

    In 2001 the UK used 2022 dollars per capita.
    In 2006 the UK used 2784 dollars per capita.

    That is a 762 increase over 5 years. Yes quite a lot but then again.

    In 2001 the US used 4915 dollars per capita
    In 2006 the US used 6714 dollars per capita

    That is a 1799 increase over 5 years.

    And you are claiming that a UHC system is some how more expensive for society because it adds to the public budget????

    As for your comment about having the doctors on the side of a UHC system.. well depends on the doctor. I bet you could find plenty of doctors that are not greed motivated and for a UHC system, as well as the opposite.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    You read the OP? Celticlord is trying to say that a few doctor represents the whole group. The AMA is more representative of doctors than a couple of doctors in a town hall meeting.

    In addition, I don't understand your position. They artificially raise doctors salaries so they support doctors and doctors like them? How does that affect what I said? In addition, they're not supporting legislation that'll (according to public opinion) lower the average wealth of doctors in the country. Shouldn't that satisfy both Democrats and Republicans? Democrats because the rich get poorer (relatively) and Republicans because doctors' salaries are no longer artificially inflated.
    The AMA only represents about 17% of doctors but that isn't really the point.

    Lower doctors wages without a corresponding rise in the amount of doctors is a poor thing to do.
    Some of the ideas Republicans are wanting aren't any good either.

    Neither side wants to really fix the problems and only uses window dressing.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The AMA only represents about 17% of doctors but that isn't really the point.

    Lower doctors wages without a corresponding rise in the amount of doctors is a poor thing to do.
    Some of the ideas Republicans are wanting aren't any good either.

    Neither side wants to really fix the problems and only uses window dressing.
    1) You prove my point. 17% of doctors is more representative of doctors in this nation as a whole than a couple of doctors in a town hall meeting.

    2) I was replying to his quote where he said doctors wages were artificially inflated. I was proposing bringing them back down to "where they should be" whatever that means. In addition, I said relatively poorer and they won't lower the average wealth of doctors. I'm not asking to take money away from doctors disproportionately. In fact, I don't think taking money away from doctors via a universalized health care system will make a noticeable difference in the wealth of doctors. Actually I'm applying to medical school this year.

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    Re: Physicians speak out on health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    1) You prove my point. 17% of doctors is more representative of doctors in this nation as a whole than a couple of doctors in a town hall meeting.
    Even though they do represent a minority of doctors, they still have considerable power.
    With the licensing, that is a heavy handle for them to hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    2) I was replying to his quote where he said doctors wages were artificially inflated. I was proposing bringing them back down to "where they should be" whatever that means. In addition, I said relatively poorer and they won't lower the average wealth of doctors. I'm not asking to take money away from doctors disproportionately. In fact, I don't think taking money away from doctors via a universalized health care system will make a noticeable difference in the wealth of doctors. Actually I'm applying to medical school this year.
    I'm fine with what the market will support as far as doctor pay goes but at this time I couldn't give you a near accurate estimation based on the fact that I don't know how many people would be doctors if the limits were lifted.

    Ideologies aside, I think it's great your going to med school.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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