you continue down this path of making excuses. So we should also add the US doctors who got their education through government sponsored financing systems? How about doctors trained at hospitals that are state funded in part? Or how about adding the banking system, and tax man on top of that because they all participate in the educating the doctors.. oh and how about the parents? Lets add their life time costs, because without them there would be no doctors.. How about the paper producers that produced the paper that the would be doctors used in kindergarten to paint mommy and mommy?
We should certainly include any educational benefits covered by the government in our cost assessment of Medicare, Medicaid and the VA system as it would give an accurate picture of the true costs.
You are failing to get the point that if the government adds more people, supplies, and other expenses to itself to cover the new inclusion of government health care, that is apart of the total cost.
The best cost to treatment there is, is to dump the sick from the program. Sorry but private insurance companies are in the business of making a profit in anyway they can and we have plenty of evidence from the US and even from Europe, that they are willing to do anything to avoid paying out for treatment.
They make more money by having healthy people under their insurance plans, so it only makes sense to make sure people get healthy quicker.
You do know that health insurance companies denials are on par with Medicare denials and that a lot of that is inaccurate paperwork filing and fraud prevention.
It aint political? it is a freaking hit job lol and just reading about the Spanish system I see tons of mistakes. And lets take the first too footnotes in the Spanish section. First one refers to an article from Expatica.. that is a web site not a book, and the article is no where on the site as far as I can see. The second footnote just says Ibid.. err okay.
Here you go
Waiting to be seen: How the health service varies across Spain < Healthcare | Expatica Spain
That is total bs and frankly typical right wing American crap that does not take into account local traditions and attitudes. First off, rehabilitation.. there is, there has been since the civil war. Spain is by far one of the best places to be physically handicapped because since the Civil war the law of the land (put in place by Franco) has been accessibility to everything for the handicapped. Every single side walk here has a on/off ramp for wheel chairs.. it is the law!. Care for the terminally ill.. err okay as far as I know very few nations provide this over the UHC as they leave it up to religious charity organisations..and what does it have to do with healthcare? There are care units for the terminally ill here, run by charities.. I contribute to the local cancer hospice here.
So we can't use our cultural differences to support our health care system but it counts for you.
I got it, you have a double standard in your measurements of quality.
Seeing as the U.S. has retirement facilities that provide general health care to it's residents would add on to the cost of overall health care.
And then the last.. few public nursing and retirement homes.. for the love of god, do the people who wrote this hatchet job of a report even travel to the countries they are pissing on?
So far I've pointed out your double standard and have spoon fed you the information directly from the source.
Something you could of found yourself.
Spain is a traditional catholic country, and yes very very family orientated. So the family takes care of the elderly, just as they have done for many many generations. There is no tradition for such services, and even if there was, what the hell does it do with the healthcare system? This is a social issue not a healthcare issue! And for the record there are retirement homes here, and there is one being built just down the road by the local government. Most retirement homes here, are however for no Spanish.. aka Brits, Danes and so on.
It's a health care issue as these places provide health care in the U.S.
So you can't always make a straight comparison with cost because we do things differently than you guys do.
It's incredibly short sighted to this without putting it into proper context.
Then I read on.. and the article rambles on about how the "rich" are able to pay their way out of the public system to get treatment faster.. well no **** sherlock, that is the whole point of a public/private system.. if you want to pay your way around the public system then you can if you want.
How is it right to make someone pay taxes for a UHC system and then force them to go outside of it and pay again to get needed treatment?
Not only can we not confirm the comment since the footnote is incomplete, but lets take it as fact just to humour you.. you do know where these to regions are right.. in Africa. But okay, they dont have MRI machines.. so what?
So it's ok that it doesn't have these things because its apart of Africa?
It is part of the Spain, do you have something against North Africans or people who live there?
Eh? Not only does the footnote refer to the same 2 dudes as the Ceuta and Mellina case, but the information is.. wrong. If you look at the WHO, or OECD numbers on the matter, then the US has 26 doctors per 10000 people and Spain has 33. On nurses it is however correct, but the difference aint that big.. 94 versus 76
I can't read Spanish very well but this seems to be the direct paper published in 2006.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/edu/v10n3/art2.pdf
Sorry this Cato document is at least in the Spanish part, riddled with mistakes, falsehoods and lack of documentation. I suspect that the rest of the article is the same.
And if you look up Michael Tanner.. well then you understand why... he is against UHC and a right winger..
I've pointed out several of your mistaken "flaws" and have further linked you to the direct places to further read the information.
Being against UHC does not make one a "right winger" combine that with the fact the Michael Tanner is not a "right winger" but a libertarian, it pretty much disproves your point.
Here is further reading on libertarians, how they are not "right wingers."
"Libertarianism is a term used to describe a broad spectrum of political philosophies which seek to maximize individual liberty and minimize or even abolish the state. Libertarians embrace viewpoints across that spectrum ranging from pro-property to anti-property, from minimal government to openly anarchist. The word libertarian is an antonym of authoritarian."
"Libertarian author and politician Harry Browne wrote: "We should never define Libertarian positions in terms coined by liberals or conservatives – nor as some variant of their positions.
We are not fiscally conservative and socially liberal. We are Libertarians, who believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility on all issues at all times. You can depend on us to treat government as the problem, not the solution.""
The underlined sums up libertarianism and as you can see we are not "right wingers."
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism]Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Yes I actually agree. The most important thing is though to get early detection and not use the emergency room......That is the main problem with your system.. people avoid the doctor and treatment because they cant afford it, and hence when it gets serious they go to the emergency room and then the costs for the state and you are huge.
You can't make people take care of themselves, even if it is cheaper it won't make someone stop eating garbage, stop being alcoholics, stop doing drugs, etc.
You can't change this with any health care system except one that makes examples out of stupid choices.
And Europeans can do that if they wish. My uncle had his busted knee operated on at a private hospital because he did not want to wait a month for the public option.. a knee he busted playing football btw.
I hope your uncle is better as I have had 3 knee surgeries and it can have a life long impact.
It's wrong for him to have to pay taxes for health care and then have to pay again to get quick service.
Seriously. You have provided zero evidence that paying more gets you faster or better treatment. And let me remind you, you are paying considerably more than Europeans and yet it does not cover your whole population and in most healthcare statistics you do not come out on top and more than often you are way down compared to UHC countries.
The lack of waiting lists is one and the higher cost is another.
WHO ranks use number 1 in timely care.
I don't use RNC talking points as I am not a Republican.
And where did you get that gem? Seriously you are using every excuse in the book to divert attention away from the truth. And of course as an American excuse piece, it has to bring in abortion...
It takes no stand on abortion other than to say that people in Europe and Cuba are more likely to use it to get rid of problem pregnancies than they are here, it is a cultural and policy difference.
It doesn't say that abortion is right or wrong.
In general, libertarians are ok with abortion.
They get treated when it is critical and hence the cost far higher. HUGE difference. That is the whole point.
I agree the cost is huge, there is a purpose for it though.
That is to slow demand and have services ready for people who need them and not for people with stupid **** that don't need a doctors services.
Yea as I thought, blame the outsiders. I have no doubt that the problem came from those regions btw, but it aint their fault that the US fails deal with it in an effective way.
Your right, the government drops the ball on this as well, yet another reason I am against government health care.
So not only is the Spain part riddled with mistakes, factual inaccuracies and falsehoods and lack of source material, but now they mix up the OECD and WHO?... And you expect us to take this report seriously? Yea lets mix up 2 international organisations that have nothing to do with each other.. that will not hurt our credibility...:rofl
It is a WHO report, see Ibid and previous entry.
Doctor/patient confidentiality is very big in the U.S.
Dignity, I don't know you'd have to check WHO for what it considers dignity.
Give me a break. All I am doing is trying to verify the information from a right wing think tank, and what happens.. I cant! because their source material is lacking at best or out right wrong! Dont blame me for your failed attempt to pass a right wing hit piece off as "fact".
It is not a right wing think tank, for the love of everything holy, it is a libertarian think tank and I have checked the sources and have provided them for you.
Libertarians do not equal right wing, republican, or conservative.