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Thread: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    And indeed, upon pondering this more, chills went down my back... strong discomforting chills.

    I think of both: Why do this, what are their motives, and what are the implications of these actions.

    There are many shaking this off as "Oh they just want information so they can debunk "mis information"" - problem is, what exactly are doing with the information? Why don't they seek / respond to the information themselves instead of seeking out the people behind the perpetuation of said information - or relying on others to get the info for them? I'm not one to jump to conclusions, but at the same time when something fishy is going on, I ask "Hey, what the **** is going on?"
    In response to the emboldened portion of your text, according to the policy in question there is no stated attempt to identify the personal information of people disseminating "fishy" material.

    I'm arguing that whether or not the government intends to collect such information is irrelevant because the mere possibility of abuse which arises as a consequence of this policy's implementation is enough to have a chilling affect on free speech. Consider the following:

    A person wants to circulate an email, amongst their acquaintances, criticizing the President's health care plan. That such an email could be reported to the government for inspection is enough to potentially discourage this person from exercising their right to free speech. Never mind that the government's stated policy is to collect information limited to the email's content - as opposed to its origin - the possibility for abuse still exists, which could conceivably have a chilling affect on free speech, rendering such policy invalid in the eyes of the law.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    In response to the emboldened portion of your text, according to the policy in question there is no stated attempt to identify the personal information of people disseminating "fishy" material.

    I'm arguing that whether or not the government intends to collect such information is irrelevant because the mere possibility of abuse which arises as a consequence of this policy's implementation is enough to have a chilling affect on free speech. Consider the following:

    A person wants to circulate an email, amongst their acquaintances, criticizing the President's health care plan. That such an email could be reported to the government for inspection is enough to potentially discourage this person from exercising their right to free speech. Never mind that the government's stated policy is to collect information limited to the email's content - as opposed to its origin - the possibility for abuse still exists, which could conceivably have a chilling affect on free speech, rendering such policy invalid in the eyes of the law.
    People that paranoid need to be locked up, or under the supervision of a psychiatrist. If you really think that this is suppression, I do not even know where to begin. Someone sits in fear about sending an e-mail, that the big government will come to get them. Like I said, they need mental health help, so I think they might have more pressing concerns, like their sanity.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    People that paranoid need to be locked up, or under the supervision of a psychiatrist.
    Yes, because healthy skepticism is the same as outright paranoia.

    At no time have I made any post that indicated anything close to a govt conspiracy to track/lock up people, I was asking questions based upon what I saw was a very generalized and broad address of an issue, without clarification about what exactly they want/want to do with it, which means we don't know which means one has to be aware so they don't abuse / mission creep with the information, or desire for information.
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 08-07-09 at 02:37 AM.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    People that paranoid need to be locked up, or under the supervision of a psychiatrist.
    Being fearful of the government is not a crime in this country; it's a fundamental part of our history. Your desire to imprison people who have committed no crime aptly demonstrates your contempt for freedom.

    If you really think that this is suppression, I do not even know where to begin. Someone sits in fear about sending an e-mail, that the big government will come to get them. Like I said, they need mental health help, so I think they might have more pressing concerns, like their sanity.
    The potential for abuse is enough to warrant fear. The government has no place encouraging people to report political dissent for executive inspection.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Being fearful of the government is not a crime in this country; it's a fundamental part of our history. Your desire to imprison people who have committed no crime aptly demonstrates your contempt for freedom.
    Obviously I was referring to having someone committed to an asylum, but you know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The potential for abuse is enough to warrant fear. The government has no place encouraging people to report political dissent for executive inspection.
    So, the administration has no right to have their supporters inform them of disinformation being spread so they can respond to lies? You know they are still entitled to interact with their supporters within the party.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Obviously I was referring to having someone committed to an asylum, but you know that.
    Right, you want to imprison people who are fearful of their government. No need to repeat yourself, I got it the first time.

    So, the administration has no right to have their supporters inform them of disinformation being spread so they can respond to lies? You know they are still entitled to interact with their supporters within the party.
    The potential for abuse is enough to warrant fear. The government has no place encouraging people to report political dissent for executive inspection.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    FBI files anyone?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Obviously I was referring to having someone committed to an asylum, but you know that.
    Using the psychiatry profession as a means of silencing dissent is not something this country ever needs to do. We do not need to recreate the Gulag Archipeligo.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    So, the administration has no right to have their supporters inform them of disinformation being spread so they can respond to lies? You know they are still entitled to interact with their supporters within the party.
    Then let them interact the same way all political parties have interacted with the American people: put out their position, make their case, let the Congressmen and Senators take the pulse of their constituents on the weighty issues of the day. The Administration does not need to be encouraging Americans to inform on other Americans.

    "Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. 'We the people' are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which 'We the people' tell the government what it is allowed to do. 'We the people' are free.
    Last edited by celticlord; 08-07-09 at 10:06 AM.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post

    Then let them interact the same way all political parties have interacted with the American people: put out their position, make their case, let the Congressmen and Senators take the pulse of their constituents on the weighty issues of the day. The Administration does not need to be encouraging Americans to inform on other Americans.
    The only reason to try this tactic is to passively admit that the counter information is correct, there would be no reason to go after someone telling a distortion or mistruth, as the truth would be a perfectly acceptible counter, only when the truth is on the other side, or when the truth deflates the agenda would silence be preferable to counter information.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Cornyn accuses White House of compiling 'enemies list'

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The only reason to try this tactic is to passively admit that the counter information is correct, there would be no reason to go after someone telling a distortion or mistruth, as the truth would be a perfectly acceptible counter, only when the truth is on the other side, or when the truth deflates the agenda would silence be preferable to counter information.



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