• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ark. crowd mocks lawmakers over Obama health plan

right, whereas lobbyists hate it when the government gets more power. they never encourage it. :spin:

That's just it. There are lobbyists on all sides. The Insurance corporations have a huge number of lobbyists that they pay to protect their interests. That's how a capitalist system works. The left has them....the right have them.....corporations have them. Its how the political game is played...and these "groundswells" are just another example of it in process.
 
Just had to repost this, I just love how ignorant Republicans are, as well as dishonest:
Since you want to be insulting, let me educate you.

Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual
  • Ronald Reagan went from $997B (09/30/1981) to $2,857B (09/29/1989)=$2.8 Trillion in 8 years
  • George H. Bush $2,857B (09/29/1989) to $4,411 (09/30/1993)=$1.5 4 Trillion in years
  • Clinton went from $4,411 (09/30/1993) to $5,807 (09/30/2001)= $1.4 Trillion in 8 years
  • George W. Bush $5,807 (09/30/2001) to $10,024 (09/30/2008) $4.2 Trillion in 8 years
    (note there is not data for 2009, which would include Bush's sendoff gift)
Not done with George W. Bush though. We still have to add up Medicare's 2003 bill, that is another $1.2 trillion - Medicare Drug Benefit May Cost $1.2 Trillion
Civics teaches us that congress has the power of the purse, they set fiscal policy and the president signs it, so guess who had power of the purse during Reagan and H.W.'s terms, the DEMOCRATS, who had the house in '94-2006, that's right the REPUBLICANS. Who has it now, with the exploding debt, including the WH, THE DEMOCRATS.
Can we ever forget Iraq? That gift to debt will end up between $3-5 trillion more -The Iraq War Will Cost Us $3 Trillion, and Much More
Total cost of Iraq, 3T by your estimates, startup cost of UHC in america 1.2T, cost estimates for first three years under current monetary values 12T. You lose.
 
It would be great if we can make it through a single thread without you starting the process of calling someone a liar or a troll.




I called his argument a lie because it is... Sorry that makes you sad panda. :2wave:


Are you really going to start with me again? Over will's misrepresentations of facts?
 
Irrelevant, the war was passed by congress, which makes it legal and constitutionaln under the war powers provision of the document, and that falls under defense, which is mandated spending. UHC fails under the tenth amendment of the constitution so all discussion might as well end about it until an amendment is passed.

I'll give you a clue, you're wrong, you are wrong if you add up the aggregates of both, year to year, and even an aggregate of the Iraq war versus any year of the proposed health plan. Don't believe me? Fine, the numbers are everywhere, including the CBO. One more thing, UHC is unconstitutional above the cost, so you fail on all counts.

Congress passes budgets, presidents sign them, so the Republicans with executive approval passed that from 1994-about 1999, before Bush was elected AND correctly done. Please learn civics before you randomly spew out talking points.
Spoken like a truly uninformed elitist. I'll tell you right now most of this post is forgetable for it's lack of correctness. You failed on comparative cost, you've failed on protocol, and you've failed to get your point across, so your only weapon left is blank condecension.

Yes condescension, that is all I have left when dealing with Conservatives who shamelessly lie, lie, and lie. It is all you people do is lie. Well that and get all emotionally fearful of anything different, but that is another story.

Don't even give me that damn "It's not in the Constitution". You know what, there is a whole hell of a lot of things NOT in the Constitution. Do you really want to go down that road? Why hasn't Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, blah blah blah all been ruled un-Constitutional?

UHC? Bingo...another dishonesty from a Conservative. God you people are good at that. UHC? I will give you a minute to think this one through, do you really want to make this dishonest claim?

p.s. Mr. Civics who submits the budget to Congress? Who has the proposals? And who between 1980-1988 submitted budgets greater than Congress wanted to approve?
 
More like Insurance Companies with deep pockets....who are deathly afraid that anyone is challenging a "for-profit" healthcare system in which they make huge profits by denying coverage.
Okay, seriously, you need to stop slamming insurance companies, they are businesses like any other with smaller profit margins, this anti-corporate schtick of yours is getting old and doesn't advance anything in the discussion.
 
I called his argument a lie because it is... Sorry that makes you sad panda. :2wave:


Are you really going to start with me again? Over will's misrepresentations of facts?

I read it is a silly opinion.

Calling people liars and trolls is nothing more then personal attacks, yet somehow you do it in pretty much every thread without getting gigged.
 
Yes condescension, that is all I have left when dealing with Conservatives who shamelessly lie, lie, and lie. It is all you people do is lie. Well that and get all emotionally fearful of anything different, but that is another story.



YOu better be careful, this might make AREALCONSERVATIVE attack you... :ssst:
 
Since you want to be insulting, let me educate you.

Civics teaches us that congress has the power of the purse, they set fiscal policy and the president signs it, so guess who had power of the purse during Reagan and H.W.'s terms, the DEMOCRATS, who had the house in '94-2006, that's right the REPUBLICANS. Who has it now, with the exploding debt, including the WH, THE DEMOCRATS.
Total cost of Iraq, 3T by your estimates, startup cost of UHC in america 1.2T, cost estimates for first three years under current monetary values 12T. You lose.

:rofl By your own argument....2000-2006 anyone?

Oh, and do look back in the historical record why don't you, specifically those years that Reagan submitted budgets asking for more than Congress wanted to spend. Do look into this please, you are sorely in need of education.
 
Okay, seriously, you need to stop slamming insurance companies, they are businesses like any other with smaller profit margins, this anti-corporate schtick of yours is getting old and doesn't advance anything in the discussion.

I'm not anti-corporation. There are places were they legitimately exist. Healthcare is just not one of them.

Anyone with even a measure of common sense can tell you that there is something inherently flawed with "For-profit" healthcare corporations.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cut the baiting out, now
 
Prove that all of these activists are paid protesters.

Your post belongs in the conspiracy section, as it is not possible for everyone who is against government health care to be a phony paid protester.

You are pretending this "groundswell" of hysterical activists is a genuine grass roots movement? Okay fine. I don't have the time or resources to gather the proof you would need, and suspect it wouldn't matter anyway.
 
I read it is a silly opinion.

Calling people liars and trolls is nothing more then personal attacks, yet somehow you do it in pretty much every thread without getting gigged.



I attacked thier arguments as lies, I do not call people names. Now so you don't look like your aruments are whiningly hypocritical, I expect you to go after sam_w with the same moxy...


Get your game on friend! :lol::lol::lol:
 
You are pretending this "groundswell" of hysterical activists is a genuine grass roots movement? Okay fine. I don't have the time or resources to gather the proof you would need, and suspect it wouldn't matter anyway.





So you have no proof, noted.
 
That's just it. There are lobbyists on all sides. The Insurance corporations have a huge number of lobbyists that they pay to protect their interests. That's how a capitalist system works. The left has them....the right have them.....corporations have them. Its how the political game is played...and these "groundswells" are just another example of it in process.

So everyone that supports UHC are just useful idiots of the lobbyists as well.

So what's the point in singling one out over the other?
 
You are pretending this "groundswell" of hysterical activists is a genuine grass roots movement? Okay fine. I don't have the time or resources to gather the proof you would need, and suspect it wouldn't matter anyway.

I have seen one or two stories saying that a couple of people are paid lobbyists.

That does not encompass the whole of the people who are against this.
I am not a paid lobbyist, yet I am against it and I use clear cut researched facts.
 
Yes condescension, that is all I have left when dealing with Conservatives who shamelessly lie, lie, and lie. It is all you people do is lie. Well that and get all emotionally fearful of anything different, but that is another story.
No, it's all you have left because your flawed arguments have been beaten, I wouldn't expect you to see it though.
Don't even give me that damn "It's not in the Constitution". You know what, there is a whole hell of a lot of things NOT in the Constitution. Do you really want to go down that road? Why hasn't Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, blah blah blah all been ruled un-Constitutional?
There you go folks, he doesn't care if we further violate the law, as long as he gets his way.
UHC? Bingo...another dishonesty from a Conservative. God you people are good at that. UHC? I will give you a minute to think this one through, do you really want to make this dishonest claim?
You might want to be careful about slander, I'm starting to dislike you and have no problem reporting you for calling me a liar.
p.s. Mr. Civics who submits the budget to Congress? Who has the proposals? And who between 1980-1988 submitted budgets greater than Congress wanted to approve?
Presidents may submit budgets, congress has final approval, whatever is signed is a legal budget, what's your point other than trying to change the subject away from your lack of basic government protocol.
 
I attacked thier arguments as lies, I do not call people names. Now so you don't look like your aruments are whiningly hypocritical, I expect you to go after sam_w with the same moxy...


Get your game on friend! :lol::lol::lol:

how is an opinion a lie again?

calling people trolls, liars, or saying they are whining is a form of a personal attack.
 
So everyone that supports UHC are just useful idiots of the lobbyists as well.

So what's the point in singling one out over the other?


I've never said that anyone is an idiot...those who support UHC or those who oppose it.

I do think that both sides need to be mindful that the debate is usually centered and controlled by lobbyists on each side.

Personally, I agree with UHC, because I think it is absolutely absurd to base a healthcare system on "for-profit" corporations. These corporations are not altruistic and in it to help people. They exist to make a profit for themselves and their shareholders. They don't make a profit if they are providing all the healthcare that their customers need. They make a profit by rationing healthcare and denying coverage where they can.
That's just simple logic.
 
I've never said that anyone is an idiot...those who support UHC or those who oppose it.

I do think that both sides need to be mindful that the debate is usually centered and controlled by lobbyists on each side.

Personally, I agree with UHC, because I think it is absolutely absurd to base a healthcare system on "for-profit" corporations. These corporations are not altruistic and in it to help people. They exist to make a profit for themselves and their shareholders. They don't make a profit if they are providing all the healthcare that their customers need. They make a profit by rationing healthcare and denying coverage where they can.
That's just simple logic.

who paid you to write that? :mrgreen:
 
You are pretending this "groundswell" of hysterical activists is a genuine grass roots movement? Okay fine. I don't have the time or resources to gather the proof you would need, and suspect it wouldn't matter anyway.

Just admit that you can't prove it and that it's only your opinion.
 
At the same time, Republicans are going to change the system so much that there's no point in implementing the system.

Excellent idea. It ain't broke, so don't fix it.

Under what grounds would Republicans accept a government health care plan?

Hopefully none, since nationalized medicine is the wrong thing to do.

Conservatives don't even try to compromise.

'Bout ****in' time they started standing up for America.

They say "you have to do this, because if you don't- you're wrong and you'll destroy America."

Ah, the wonderful sound of truth in the morning.

Give us more.

Then they turn the other way when some lunatic kills one of those "America destroyers."

The Messiah was shot? Some other Democrat? When did this happen?
 
I called his argument a lie because it is... Sorry that makes you sad panda. :2wave:


Are you really going to start with me again? Over will's misrepresentations of facts?

Since when do forum rules allow you to just spout "you lied" whenever you feel like it? You have repeatedly demonstrated yourself to be partisan, ignoring of the facts, and blind to evidence that challenges your opinions.
Prove your claim of misrepresentation. Show me how I "lied", or else apologize.
 
I will be following Zyphs warning, and not responding to your baiting.

I'm not baiting, I'm stating my opinion.

When you go around saying people are trolling, you are calling them trolls.

When you go around and define their reply as whining, you are calling them a whiner.

Same with saying people are lying. That is calling them a liar.

I'm not sure where/how you were warned, I certainly didn't report squat. I'm just explaining how I feel about your presence on these threads.
 
I'm not baiting, I'm stating my opinion.

When you go around saying people are trolling, you are calling them trolls.

When you go around and define their reply as whining, you are calling them a whiner.

Same with saying people are lying. That is calling them a liar.

I'm not sure where/how you were warned, I certainly didn't report squat. I'm just explaining how I feel about your presence on these threads.



Moderator's Warning:
Cut the baiting out, now



I guess you missed that. Again, I wont be responding to your baiting.
 
Back
Top Bottom