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Thread: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

  1. #11
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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by galenrox View Post
    He meant it will do nothing to the price of gas. 4.5 hours, meaning 0.05% of overall consumption, and that's presuming that people don't start driving more since the cost of driving each mile has decreased (which obviously many would, eliminating any decrease in consumption).
    So as the more fuel efficient cars hit the market and the less efficient cars come off of it, we'll not be getting a higher relative supply? Is that what you're saying?

    Where the hell do you think the money paying for this program came from? Magical fairies raining money from on high?
    Care to read my quote again? Unless you believe that Obama became President while W was still in office and prevented people from buying cars during that period too. Don't tell me you think people just recently stopped buying cars. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    Well if you're not you're making a serious error in judgment by failing to take into account the demographics which are driving around the cars that qualify for this program (speaking as someone who drives a $1500 car), but beyond that buying cars is a source of debt itself. They are going to dealerships, buying cars from people who's job is to saddle people with as much debt as humanly possible.
    Not really. If people can't afford a car, it'll be hard to convince a bank to give them a loan if they're already in debt. My personal idea would be to buy one of those clunkers off a poor guy for $2500 or so (even if it's only worth $1500) and then trade it in. That way I come out $2000 ahead (assuming the max $4500 trade-in), the guy comes out on top $1000, and the car lot gets business. The poor guy wouldn't be able to buy a new car anyway, so he makes $1000 and buys either a better car than he had or does something good with the money.

    You're spending this money. Presumably it comes from somewhere. That money, before the government takes it out of the economy, was having a stimulative effect, making taking it out of the economy destimulative. Some of it goes back into the economy in the planned way, other parts of it go to paying for operating expenses for the bureaucracy required to administrate the program. As this money is going where the government decided it should go (which it presumably would not go if managed by people who care about price and quality, hence why the government took it in the first place), and subsequently is a less efficient manner of using the funds in the economy. As a product of this, the net effect of said program is the opposite of stimulative.
    Prove that the money would be better used than if used in the stimulative package. Obama operates on taxing the rich more than the poor. The rich, by definition, have a lot of money sitting around. A lot of money sitting around does NOT help the economy.

    It decreases our national by .005%. If you care about actually helping the environment, and not just patting yourself on the back about helping the environment, selling this program as an environmental program (subsequently coming at a cost to the political capital to be dedicated to future environmental programs) is a joke at best.
    A joke at best? Maybe we should stop pussy-footing around and do something. If this does anything helpful, it's better than not doing anything helpful. Sure, the effect might be small now, but it's not like this is the only thing Obama has done for the green movement. Also, this isn't just an environmental move. This is part of a stimulative action that just so happens to be related to the environment.

    It's bad for the economy, both in damaging profitable businesses and in giving competitive advantage to unprofitable businesses. It's the UAW using the government as a means of stealing from productive citizens, and the democratically elected government is not only complicit in this, they are the ones stealing the money and giving it to the UAW. It sucks as an environmental program, it hurts the economy, it encourages people who need to save the most to increase their consumption and places them in a situation where they more than likely will take on even more debt (as obviously we haven't run into any problems from poor people taking on too much debt at any point in our recent history), there really isn't anything to like about it.
    This doesn't even make sense. I already addressed most of these points above.

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    personally, i'm a little sick of helping my neighbor buy a better car than mine

    i just got thru helping him pay for his house (and you should see it---3500 square feet, 5 beds, 3.5 baths, granite countertops, recessed lighting, crown molding---ALL the upgrades!!!)

    my neighbor is such a FLAKE

    LOL!

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Prove that the money would be better used than if used in the stimulative package. Obama operates on taxing the rich more than the poor. The rich, by definition, have a lot of money sitting around. A lot of money sitting around does NOT help the economy.
    You don't know anything about economics, so quit talking about it. You're making yourself sound like a fool.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You don't know anything about economics, so quit talking about it. You're making yourself sound like a fool.
    Oh please. How about you teach me something rather than sitting in your chair calling people names. You know nothing about anything. See? I can do it too. When you make unjustified statements like that, you make YOURSELF sound like a fool. I justified myself, why not try it sometime?

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Oh please. How about you teach me something rather than sitting in your chair calling people names. You know nothing about anything. See? I can do it too. When you make unjustified statements like that, you make YOURSELF sound like a fool. I justified myself, why not try it sometime?
    Your uneducated statement was "A lot of money sitting around does NOT help the economy."

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Your uneducated statement was "A lot of money sitting around does NOT help the economy."
    Okay, explain how money sitting around in the banks of rich people helps the economy. Our economy prospers when there's a constant exchange of money flowing. When there is less money flowing? Our economy is going downhill. It's a recession, but economists will tell you to spend, spend, spend. It might make you a little bit poorer for a moment, but it'll help the economy. Am I wrong?

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Okay, explain how money sitting around in the banks of rich people helps the economy. Our economy prospers when there's a constant exchange of money flowing. When there is less money flowing? Our economy is going downhill. It's a recession, but economists will tell you to spend, spend, spend. It might make you a little bit poorer for a moment, but it'll help the economy. Am I wrong?
    Yes. How do you invest in the means of production?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yes. How do you invest in the means of production?
    If your money is sitting in a bank not doing anything, you don't.

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    If your money is sitting in a bank not doing anything, you don't.
    So then all of the money that you put into a bank stays in the bank?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Clunkers' Effect on Pollution? A Blip

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So then all of the money that you put into a bank stays in the bank?
    As far as the person who put it into the bank is concerned, yes.

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