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Thread: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

  1. #221
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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Those all sound perfectly reasonable to me.
    The point being, those particular examples are trite thought-terminating clichés, and they also assume that one has no right to do anything about others' illegal and/or immoral actions.

    [quote=Orius;1058175760]All of those things have to do with fully formed, autonomous human beings. A one month old embryo is not a person.[/quote]

    What constitutes a person is hardly a settled question in most contexts.
    Last edited by Coronado; 08-05-09 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Quote function is all ****ed up.

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    This is my problem... control. One group trying to control what another person does, based on their staunch beliefs. You are entitled to think it's murder, and so am I, but that is irrelevant to the broad sphere of other people's beliefs.
    Let make a little demonstration about how flawed this moral relativity crap is...

    One group trying to control what another person does, based on their staunch beliefs. You are entitled to think putting Jews in furnaces is murder, and so am I, but that is irrelevant to the broad sphere of other people's beliefs.

    You are entitled to think enslaving blacks is wrong, and so am I, but that is irrelevant to the broad sphere of other people's beliefs.

    You are entitled to think that euthanizing grandma when she gets too old to care for herself is wrong, and so am I, but that is irrelevant to the broad sphere of other people's beliefs.

    See where this is going? Do you see the flaw in making this about people's feelings and beliefs? There needs to be a legal standard until such a time as science can determine with certainty both what personhood is biologically and when it is present in the fetus.

    Just because you might believe it is murder, doesn't mean it actually is.
    Just because you might not believe it is murder, doesn't mean it actually isn't.

    Even science cannot determine what this means, and they are the ones looking at the hard neurological factors of first semester abortion.
    First trimester abortion isn't a debate to me. It's a medical procedure to alleviate a medical condition. Science can say with certainty that there is no morphological component available to the fetus at this stage that would predicate any definition of awareness. It's basically a blob of flesh who's only claims to significance are that which the woman gives it and the fact that it has a unique chemical structure in its DNA.

    Getting beyond that to the 18th weeks and beyond, we have serious issue if the government is to provide funding.

    I think it's arrogant and superior to belief what you think should override the views of all others. This is my view on abortion as a rule.
    And it's cruel, barbaric, and superior to believe that what you think should override the right to life...one of our basic founding principles.

    As for the UHC part of it... I cannot deny that, from an American perspective, it would be forcing all people to pay with abortion for their taxes. As a Canadian, I think it is perfectly ethical... but if I were an American who was against abortion, I'd be pissed.
    Well, we have some agreement there.

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    I'm pro-abortion and proud of it. I'm also pro-choice, because i don't want abortion forced on anyone. I don't want my views on abortion forced on anyone, so i think the woman should choose and not me.

    Most pro-lifers aren't just pro-life, but they're anti-choice because they want to strip away the choice from the woman. Meh, men have always wanted to boss women around. You should read about how much men did this in times past!




    so if I want to murder someone and you say no, you are anti-choice?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Sorry, Rev, ol man, this has already been debunked in another thread with an article from factcheck.org.

    Those facts are pesky stubborn things and that factcheck.org does a great job applying them to the daily partisan spin.

    Check it out ---> DEBUNKED BY FACTS


    I think fact check is wrong:

    The Associated Press: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    and 357 other recent articles. Could you point out were they are excluded in the actual plan? thanks.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    so if I want to murder someone and you say no, you are anti-choice?
    "Murder" or "kill"? Abortion isn't murder, but it is killing. Some killing, like abortion, is justified, and therefore not murder. So if you want to murder someone, yes, i'm anti-choice just like if you wanted to rape someone. However, if you want to kill someone, and it's justified, i'm pro-choice, just like if you want to have sex with a consenting adult, instead of raping them. I'm pro-choice if the choice is justified. I'm not pro-choice if the act is considered wrong by the very term used to describe it.

    To put a point on it, i'm pro-choice when it comes to you being allowed to chose to kill someone who has broken into your home and threatened or harmed your family. (And other scenarios).
    Last edited by Sammyo; 08-05-09 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Why?

    UHC paying for abortions means that all abortion clinics become subject to government inspection, which means we can make sure that procedures are being performed safely and humanely. At private clinics things can happen more behind closed doors.



    What about coverage for other electives like lyposuction, nose jobs, etc?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    "Murder" or "kill"? Abortion isn't murder, but it is killing. Some killing, like abortion, is justified, and therefore not murder. So if you want to murder someone, yes, i'm anti-choice just like if you wanted to rape someone. However, if you want to kill someone, and it's justified, i'm pro-choice, just like if you want to have sex with a consenting adult, instead of raping them. I'm pro-choice if the choice is justified. I'm not pro-choice if the act is considered wrong by the very term used to describe it.

    To put a point on it, i'm pro-choice when it comes to you being allowed to chose to kill someone who has broken into your home and threatened or harmed your family. (And other scenarios).


    Abortion is killing? Thanks for the consession. unjustified killing of another human is murder.


    What justification do you have to take this other humans life?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Abortion is killing? Thanks for the consession. unjustified killing of another human is murder.
    Yep. Abortion is killing, but justified, as i explained. Not murder. So sayeth the supremest court in the land.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What justification do you have to take this other humans life?
    According to me, or according to the law of the land?

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    Yep. Abortion is killing, but justified, as i explained. Not murder. So sayeth the supremest court in the land.




    According to me, or according to the law of the land?
    In a ruling that was confessed to be flawed by the Justice who wrote it. Roe is bad judicial opinion and needs to be revisited in a sincere attempt at getting it right.

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    Re: Gov't insurance would allow coverage for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    Yep. Abortion is killing, but justified, as i explained. Not murder. So sayeth the supremest court in the land.
    Are you refering to the unconstitutional roe v wade, abortion of a decision?



    According to me, or according to the law of the land?
    Lets start with you. I find those that use the law to justify barbarism, well simple.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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