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Thread: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The idea that the government merely writing you a check means you accept its control over your life is entirely baffling to someone who truly understands and truly loves liberty.
    The reason the government is writing you a check is because you have expressed your inability to manage your own affairs. You've asked the government to take care of you, since you are incapable, and they are doing so.

    Of all the civil liberties that are being eroded, the civil liberties of those who have publicly expressed their inability to handle their business matter the least to me.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    My argument is that if the public is supporting you, then they should expect that you would comply with the laws of the land. If one on the government support system is unable to follow such laws, or are raising their kids to not do so, then the public interest is to monitor and correct such behavior.
    No, this is no excuse at all. George Orwell must be spinning in his god damn grave right now. This policy is monstrous and no amount of intellectual gymnastics could justify such a thing.

    What about the children? Do they also have to surrender their liberty to the government simply because their parents are bums? Just because you can think up and excuse for such a thing DOES NOT mean it should be done. This is a frightful expansion of government. Truly terrifying.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't believe the government has a role in funding people who don't work, EVER, aside from those who are completely physically and/or mentally incapable of doing so.

    However, if we do so, having worked a great deal with welfare families, I see a need for attaching strings to the dollars.
    As I said, you simply don't understand what you're saying.

    Or, on the chance that you do, it's scary.

    How this country shrugged off 200+ years of history and got this point pretty much entirely within my lifetime is amazing to me. NO ONE, except maybe some fringers, would have agreed with you guys 40 years ago. Now, you all nonchalantly accept the idea of casting liberty to the wind because of a few measly dollars.

    So maybe people shouldn't mooch off taxpayers. They should not. But if you don't see that in a free country where liberty is cherished, the solution is NOT to restrict personal liberty, then you're really far gone.

    I would say the country is well-primed for the oncoming totalitarian state, because as I said, you guys don't even know you're OK with it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, this is no excuse at all. George Orwell must be spinning in his god damn grave right now. This policy is monstrous and no amount of intellectual gymnastics could justify such a thing.

    What about the children? Do they also have to surrender their liberty to the government simply because their parents are bums? Just because you can think up and excuse for such a thing DOES NOT mean it should be done. This is a frightful expansion of government. Truly terrifying.
    Why is it terrifying? How are the children giving-up anything? The parents are living on the tax payers, do you think that is ok?

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The reason the government is writing you a check is because you have expressed your inability to manage your own affairs. You've asked the government to take care of you, since you are incapable, and they are doing so.

    Of all the civil liberties that are being eroded, the civil liberties of those who have publicly expressed their inability to handle their business matter the least to me.
    What's next? Anyone who walks into the DMV gets followed home by a plain-clothes-man to insure they don't break any traffic laws?

    Yes, these people are recieving government assisstance but that doesn't justify draconian security measures being imposed upon entire families. I believe the children have rights too. Just because their guardians are seeking government assisstance doesn't mean their children should be subjected to this Orwellian security system. I cannot believe anyone could justify such a thing. It's patently disturbing. Very troubling indeed.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Why is it terrifying? How are the children giving-up anything? The parents are living on the tax payers, do you think that is ok?
    How do you not find the idea of 24-hour in-home camera monitoring, with periodic in-home checkups, terrifying?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The reason the government is writing you a check is because you have expressed your inability to manage your own affairs. You've asked the government to take care of you, since you are incapable, and they are doing so.

    Of all the civil liberties that are being eroded, the civil liberties of those who have publicly expressed their inability to handle their business matter the least to me.
    Civil liberties apply to EVERYONE, or they mean nothing at all. That's about as fundamental as it gets.

    Good God, you people get more frightening as the thread goes on.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Why is it terrifying?
    Have you ever read a little book called 1984?

    How are the children giving-up anything?
    That's the point. The children aren't "giving-up" anything. Their privacy is being taken away from them without their consent.

    The parents are living on the tax payers, do you think that is ok?
    Of course not. I'm a libertarian, but this also means I fear centralized government authority. This is terrible.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Then what are your solutions? The problem the UK is having is that Welfare families are breeding more Welfare families and criminal teens, which are on the rise. What do you do short of taking the children away from the parents or ending Welfare? Either does nothing to prevent the increase in criminal teens.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    How do you not find the idea of 24-hour in-home camera monitoring, with periodic in-home checkups, terrifying?
    Of course it is terrifying if it is happening to regular, tax paying citizens.

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