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Thread: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Because the point of the legislation in question is not to expand power, but to prevent crime and protect children, protect society and end wasteful spending.


    Even if that's true, you can come up with "good intentions" for any amount of government mischief.

    There are lines the government is not supposed to cross. Right?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Beyond that, a person who accepts the dole is saying, in effect: "I can't handle my business, I need everyone else to rescue me from the circumstances of my life."

    Don't be surprised if you get exactly what you've asked for.
    That is exactly right. That is why I never accept money from anyone. If I take money from my parents, then they have a say if I am wasting money. Why? Because if I need money to pay bills and borrow, but I still blow money on other things, then they have a right to either cut me off or tell me how to spend the money they give. Same with Welfare recipients.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post


    Even if that's true, you can come up with "good intentions" for any amount of government mischief.

    There are lines the government is not supposed to cross. Right?
    This is why I'm not in favor of government handouts in any area. Anytime you accept a dole from the government, you are opening the door for the government to meddle in your personal life.

    Don't want the meddling? Don't take the check.

    I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for you. If you don't want the nanny interfering in your life, don't try to beg money out of nanny's pocket.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Then don't accept the check. The taxpayers have a right to ensure that the money is being spent properly. If you don't like the strings attached to the check, get off your ass and work.
    So . . .

    Instead of the government existing to protect your liberties, you'd turn it into a mafia-style loan shark who comes in and busts your kneecaps if you don't behave?

    I'm truly, truly frightened by the responses in this thread. We're going to be living in Orwellian state within our lifetimes, and most of you don't even know you're OK with that.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post


    Even if that's true, you can come up with "good intentions" for any amount of government mischief.

    There are lines the government is not supposed to cross. Right?
    Sure, there is a line. But why should the public allow worthless parents to collect money on children and stay at home on the tax payer dime, while they corrupt or damage these children, creating crime problems and more dependents on the system. There are two choices: 1) End Welfare and when people have kids but can't support themselves, the state must take the children into protective custody and find them foster homes. 2) The government monitors those on the system to ensure it is not abused. Take your pick, because one way or another, these people are freely giving-up their rights when they stretch their hands out to tax payers.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    This is why I'm not in favor of government handouts in any area. Anytime you accept a dole from the government, you are opening the door for the government to meddle in your personal life.

    Don't want the meddling? Don't take the check.

    I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for you. If you don't want the nanny interfering in your life, don't try to beg money out of nanny's pocket.
    I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept for YOU to understand how it's an 80-degree slippery slope.

    The idea that the government merely writing you a check means you accept its control over your life is entirely baffling to someone who truly understands and truly loves liberty.

    One more time -- if you subsidize someone and they abuse it, they should lose the subsidy, not get commisars to watch their every move.

    You guys really have no idea what you're saying.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So . . .

    Instead of the government existing to protect your liberties,
    No one has a right to mooch off tax payers. It would be different if this was a social security or medicare ir some other program where everyone pays into it with the expectation that one day they will get this money back in some form and even those cases there is still some conditions in order to get that money back.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Sure, there is a line. But why should the public allow worthless parents to collect money on children and stay at home on the tax payer dime, while they corrupt or damage these children, creating crime problems and more dependents on the system. There are two choices: 1) End Welfare and when people have kids but can't support themselves, the state must take the children into protective custody and find them foster homes.
    Ending welfare is fine with me, but you can still maintain a social safety net without giving up freedom.


    2) The government monitors those on the system to ensure it is not abused. Take your pick, because one way or another, these people are freely giving-up their rights when they stretch their hands out to tax payers.
    No. They aren't. If they don't take the opportunity they're given, then they should lose it. But they aren't giving up their rights. If they think they are, then they're the exact opposite of everything this country -- everything personal LIBERTY -- is supposed to be about.

    That you guys are fine with it is deeply, deeply disturbing.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So . . .

    Instead of the government existing to protect your liberties, you'd turn it into a mafia-style loan shark who comes in and busts your kneecaps if you don't behave?

    I'm truly, truly frightened by the responses in this thread. We're going to be living in Orwellian state within our lifetimes, and most of you don't even know you're OK with that.
    I don't believe the government has a role in funding people who don't work, EVER, aside from those who are completely physically and/or mentally incapable of doing so.

    However, if we do so, having worked a great deal with welfare families, I see a need for attaching strings to the dollars.

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    Re: SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES (aka the end of liberty in Britain)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Ending welfare is fine with me, but you can still maintain a social safety net without giving up freedom.




    No. They aren't. If they don't take the opportunity they're given, then they should lose it. But they aren't giving up their rights. If they think they are, then they're the exact opposite of everything this country -- everything personal LIBERTY -- is supposed to be about.

    That you guys are fine with it is deeply, deeply disturbing.
    Tell me, how do you maintain the security net and prevent abuses?

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