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Thread: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
    Here's a thought and I know it works in my household. How about we just quit spending money we don't have? Instead of continually creating massive spending programs, why don't we approach it from the other direction. Take last years budget and cut 10% in every department. Then you don't need to raise taxes. You take any surpluss and start paying down the debt.

    But that would just be common sense and go knows that would never fly in DC.
    Are you the same one who saw a cash flow bonanza when you took that 0% Home loan about four years ago because you thought the market could only go up?

    How about fessing up to a little responsibility. You want roads, sewers, bridges, schools, prestige, good food and water, security at home and abroad, to be proud that your country is the world leader in almost everything?

    Pay for it!

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Are you the same one who saw a cash flow bonanza when you took that 0% Home loan about four years ago because you thought the market could only go up?

    How about fessing up to a little responsibility. You want roads, sewers, bridges, schools, prestige, good food and water, security at home and abroad, to be proud that your country is the world leader in almost everything?

    Pay for it!
    This is a particularly stupid strawman argument, which unfortunately pops up with regularity. If someone argues that there should be NO taxes yet there should still be services, then this holds. But unless that's what they're arguing, it doesn't.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Are you the same one who saw a cash flow bonanza when you took that 0% Home loan about four years ago because you thought the market could only go up?

    How about fessing up to a little responsibility. You want roads, sewers, bridges, schools, prestige, good food and water, security at home and abroad, to be proud that your country is the world leader in almost everything?

    Pay for it!
    You must have me confused with someone else. Never played the home mortgage game, but thanks for asking.

    I want government to do what government should do. No more, no less. The government does not need to tell me which car to buy, what medical procedures I'm "entitled too", what kind of light bulb I should be using in a lamp or making me pay some ghost organization for a carbon tax. Government should do what it is charged with doing in our Constitution. Provide defense for the nation, write and enforce the laws of the land (in accordance with the constitution) and build and maintain the infrastructure. Anthing else is just pandering for votes.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
    You must have me confused with someone else. Never played the home mortgage game, but thanks for asking.

    I want government to do what government should do. No more, no less. The government does not need to tell me which car to buy, what medical procedures I'm "entitled too", what kind of light bulb I should be using in a lamp or making me pay some ghost organization for a carbon tax. Government should do what it is charged with doing in our Constitution. Provide defense for the nation, write and enforce the laws of the land (in accordance with the constitution) and build and maintain the infrastructure. Anything else is just pandering for votes.
    The government doesn't tell you what car to buy. the government should use incentives to get people buying after they've been frightened to death by greedy bankers and investors. If that includes car incentives? God bless them.

    The government doesn't tell you what procedures you are 'entitled to'. Insurance companies do that.

    The government doesn't tell you what bulb to buy. They just reward you or tax you less if you buy wisely.

    As for Carbon. There is a choice. We are net importers of Oil. We could tax that commodity to reduce consumption to the levels we produce or we could tax carbon users in industry. Secondly carbon is known as a cancer causer and it's use is exacerbating effects on climate. Bringing these pollutants down to more sane levels is a national priority. So instead of taxing consumers the government chooses to tax industrial users with incentives for them to generate pollution reduction solutions. good public policy.

    Interesting you spent so little type on providing for general welfare and pursuit of happiness. Infrastructure is a biggie. Regulation is a biggie.

    How about you comment on SS, Medicare, Military retirement and health care, Food and Drug regulation, Commerce.

    then please advise why America is 50th in general health care, 37th in longevity, and first in cost of HC by more than $6000 per person a year.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Do you have any evidence that the majority of Americans would prefer Obama to run the country into the ground while adhering to campaign promises than break his promises by implementing good policies? That sounds more like what you prefer, and, with all due respect, not many people care much what you prefer
    I would he prefer that he tried to create more tax revenue by putting more people to work vice putting people out of work and raising taxes. That's just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    This is a particularly stupid strawman argument, which unfortunately pops up with regularity. If someone argues that there should be NO taxes yet there should still be services, then this holds. But unless that's what they're arguing, it doesn't.
    so you would prefer no taxes and no services, and no government, just you and your gun against the world. Well, unfortunately that is not an option, the citizens of the US decided against that position about 150 years ago.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    The government doesn't tell you what car to buy.
    Not yet anyway. But with their involvement in GM and Chrysler, it won’t be long until the government begins to mandate which type of car will get built by these companies. Then they will give us all incentives to buy the correct “type” of car.

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    the government should use incentives to get people buying after they've been frightened to death by greedy bankers and investors. If that includes car incentives? God bless them.
    People have not been frightened by bankers and investors. They have been frightened by the financial collapse leading to financial uncertainty. The collapse that was spurned by the government creating “incentives” to banks to make risky home loans to people that could not afford them.

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    The government doesn't tell you what procedures you are 'entitled to'. Insurance companies do that.
    And if I don’t like their options, I am free to shop around for a different company. However, when the government takes it over, where then will I turn?

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    The government doesn't tell you what bulb to buy. They just reward you or tax you less if you buy wisely.
    Once again, this is an example of the government trying to “guide” us into making the correct choice. When the government does this, you need to ask yourself, why? Follow the money trail on this one all the way back to General Electric. They are the ones pushing this Tax for Traitors policy. Guess who makes the most light bulbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    As for Carbon. There is a choice. We are net importers of Oil. We could tax that commodity to reduce consumption to the levels we produce or we could tax carbon users in industry.
    Or we could just let people make their own decisions. You act as though we need to tax people or products for the sake of taxing something. Change your paradigm.

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Secondly carbon is known as a cancer causer
    Really? And here I thought that carbon was the base element on which life is based. You must be the product of our public school systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    and it's use is exacerbating effects on climate. Bringing these pollutants down to more sane levels is a national priority. So instead of taxing consumers the government chooses to tax industrial users with incentives for them to generate pollution reduction solutions. good public policy.
    Only if you buy into Al Gores propaganda pushed upon us by those most likely to profit from it. There is plenty of evidence that the earth is going thru heating and cooling cycles now just as it has done for millions of years. I don’t think humans have much to say in the matter. The earth will do it with or without us.
    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    Interesting you spent so little type on providing for general welfare and pursuit of happiness. Infrastructure is a biggie. Regulation is a biggie.
    Read the Constitution. It does not say “Provide the General Welfare”, it says “Promote the General Welfare”. There is a difference. Promoting the General Welfare is the part that allows the government to provide the tools to allow its citizens to help themselves. And by this, I mean the Infrastructure, roads, bridges, etc. No where in the Constitution to I see anything about “Regulation”. Could you please provide me with a link that displays how the constitution says anything about regulating business?

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    How about you comment on SS, Medicare, Military retirement and health care, Food and Drug regulation, Commerce.
    SS and Medicare are government run ponzi schemes. It was a social program started by FDR to pander for votes. Military retirement is something that is provided by the country to our service men and women as part of their contract with the government for their service. It is not “given” to them, it is “earned” by them. There is a big difference between being handed something (entitlement programs) and earning something.

    Food and drug regulation is simply a way to ensure that people are not harmed by the actions (whether intentional or not) of food and drug providers. I generally agree with the concept, but know that abuses and payoffs occur in this area.

    What about Commerce? I agree with Commerce.

    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    then please advise why America is 50th in general health care, 37th in longevity, and first in cost of HC by more than $6000 per person a year.
    You need to look at the way the statistics are put together. Just because we have the Best Healthcare system in the world does not mean everyone lives health life styles. I would say that because we have such a great system, some people live riskier lives than they would if they were not confident in our hospitals to take care of them in case of accidents or bad behavior.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    so you would prefer no taxes and no services, and no government, just you and your gun against the world. Well, unfortunately that is not an option, the citizens of the US decided against that position about 150 years ago.
    You must have misread his post. He nor any other conservative I know proposes that we don't pay taxes. What we propose is that we only pay for what is necessary. Funding every social program imaginable is neither fiscally responsible nor practical. I don't believe our government should be in that business. But I have no problem paying taxes to support the government doing that which is constitutionally mandated.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
    You must have misread his post. He nor any other conservative I know proposes that we don't pay taxes. What we propose is that we only pay for what is necessary. Funding every social program imaginable is neither fiscally responsible nor practical. I don't believe our government should be in that business. But I have no problem paying taxes to support the government doing that which is constitutionally mandated.
    For many in your camp, what is "necessary" includes only bullets and bibles, the rest they will get for themselves.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    For many in your camp, what is "necessary" includes only bullets and bibles, the rest they will get for themselves.
    Well see, that is one of the problems I have with liberals, they always take everything to the extreme. I believe in the government funding the infrastructure, police and fire and some of the watch dog agencies charged with maintaining public safety.

    But just because liberals believe that we should take care of everyone from cradle to grave and conservatives oppose it, seems to give them cause to over simplify conservative positions.

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