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Thread: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

  1. #121
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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavellian View Post
    same as America could not afford to be wrong with Iraq.
    If we gave the UN investigators and Kelly more time, they would have ensured and checked. And hell maybe we wouldn't have lost so many soldiers.
    We found no WMD's. We were wrong. Why is that so hard to accept?

    So ... Attack Iraq but leave in place Saudi Arabia who has a history of funding and influencing extremism? Attack Iraq but leave Iran which is building a Nuke? Attack Iraq but leave Syria which funds terrorist groups?
    Attack Iraq and ignore Al Qaeda is in Pakistan, a nuclear country

    Great logic. I can see the world has gone so much safer because of our actions.


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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Afhanistan perhaps wasn't but it still counts as a war.
    No one is arguing whether or not the Afghanistan War could or could not be counted as a war - rather you blamed President Bush for starting that war when in fact, America was attacked first on 9/11 and it was that event that directly led to the Afghan War.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Iraq was a war of choice and stupidity for the 'coalition of the willing'
    Being wrong and being stupid are not synonymous - you were wrong to blame Bush for the Afghan War - are you arguing that becuase you are wrong, you are stupid too?

    In the end, President Bush was right to try and protect America when the UN failed - the fact that Saddam was lying, is Saddam's own fault - he had many opportunities to simply comply with the UN - SADDAM CHOSE NOT TO AND THUS HE IS RESPONSIBLE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    As i said and always have said, we should have left Iraq alone and Saddam
    I disagree.
    Last edited by Machiavellian; 08-04-09 at 04:37 PM.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavellian View Post
    I disagree.
    Well of course you disagree.

    Okay, i'll admit i am wrong to blame Bush for Afghanistan but i will blame Bush for Iraq.
    9/11 led to Afghanistan fair enough
    But Bush must have been drunk when he authorised force in Iraq.


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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Well of course you disagree.

    Okay, i'll admit i am wrong to blame Bush for Afghanistan but i will blame Bush for Iraq.
    9/11 led to Afghanistan fair enough
    But Bush must have been drunk when he authorised force in Iraq.
    Lol, again I disagree - Saddam, by not complying with UN resolutions, appeared to have been hiding WMDs. America was still reeling from 9/11 and Bush simply could not put more innocent American lives in danger by allowing Saddam to have and perhaps distribute WMDs.

    Again, and there is really no way of getting around this - Saddam chose not to comply - he could have complied and there would have been no war - but, Saddam chose not to comply.

    Your argument is akin to arguing that a cop should be held responsible for shooting a criminal who did not comply with his order to lay on the ground and who, moreover, was brandishing an empty gun [which of couse, the police officer did not know was empty at that time.] In the end, the criminal's choice to not comply with the police officer led to his own shooting - the peace officer is not to blame for that choice.
    Last edited by Machiavellian; 08-04-09 at 04:47 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    I think it is pathetic US is picking and choosing which nations to invade just because of UN resolution.

    How many has Israel missed out on? Invade it?
    How about China? Russia? Most of Africa ... And Asia ... and ME have human rights abuses, do we invade them all?


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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I think it is pathetic US is picking and choosing which nations to invade just because of UN resolution.
    Did I not already address this? I am pretty sure that I did... it was the failure to comply COUPLED with the inherent danger to America that was the drive.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavellian View Post
    Did I not already address this? I am pretty sure that I did... it was the failure to comply COUPLED with the inherent danger to America that was the drive.
    There was no danger! It was paranoia on US's behalf
    If we had let the UN do its damn job, it would have confirmed what we found. Nada. Zilch.


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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I think it is pathetic US is picking and choosing which nations to invade just because of UN resolution.
    It's overwhelmingly unsound to argue that, since we invaded one country because of UN violations, we are somehow bound to invade them all.

    Using your logic, since you painted one room blue because you didnt like the old color, you must then paint blue ALL the rooms that you don't like the old color.

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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    There was no danger! It was paranoia on US's behalf
    The UN itself described Iraq and his behavior as a threat to the security of the region.

  10. #130
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    Re: 2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavellian View Post
    ...and as I stated, you referred to two wars; I cited 9/11 as the impetus for the Afghanistan war and Saddam's failure to comply with UN resolutions tied with the threat he posed if he had WMDs.

    All of a sudden, the Iraq war is the only war you seem to point out and take the specific cause for the Afghan war as the specific cause for the Iraq war – perhaps you are just confused… or perhaps you are trying to mislead.
    Dub-yah took his eye off the prize. Plain and simple. Had he remained focused on the War on Terror in Afghanistan instead of tinkering around in Iraq w/WMDs that just weren't there our troops in Afghanistan would be far more successful today. The man created problems where none existed beforehand. But nobody on the other side of politics wants to admit that. All they can talk about is "if" this or "if" that, but to date NOBODY HAS FOUND WMDs in Iraq - NOBODY!

    They've found spent shells, empty labs, warehouses w/conventional weapons, a few documents here and there, but NO WMDs which was the very primus for going to war w/Iraq in the first place. And Liala's right! If I remember the head-count correctly, 8 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Not one was from Iraq! They didn't use conventional bombs to bring the WTC bldgs down. They used our own commercial planes! You didn't see mustard or sarin gas spew from the ashed. It was dust from pummelled plaster!

    Saddam was no more a threat to this country or its national security than Kim Jung Ill (or whoever is N. Korea's president). That doesn't mean that he wasn't a bad man and a terrible leader to his people, and he certainly did threaten smaller nations around him (re: Kuwaitt). But he didn't threaten the U.S. in any way that required going to war. And even if the U.N. believed military force was necessary which many including myself contend they did not, it was still a U.N. issue, not a U.S.A. issue.

    Now, I digress...

    On this issue of potentially raising taxes on the middle class...key word here "potential"...it hasn't happened yet. So, until it does I really don't think there's anything to get all up in arms about. I do think that if the ecomony doesn't shake loose from it's slumber soon - and all signs indicated that things are starting to slowly turn around - then taxes would have to be raised. It would be a shame, but as an American I'd be willing to pay my fair share, and so should everyone else.

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