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Thread: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Search and rescue assets are a vital part of a standing military. Pilots are worth their weight in gold, and being able to recover them is a significant edge in combat. However, with the lack of pilots getting shot down in Iraq, the soldiers tasked to such roles are not being employed. Using them in missions of secondary priority like this is a reasonable use of resources. Considering the PR value in a time when recruiting is down, the cost benefit analysis is quite favorable.

    That said, people need to remember that war is a zero-sum game. Every resource spent in one place means that it isn't available somewhere else. Pilots get rescued because they are valuable, you don't see that kind of effort expended finding a rifleman. In this case it was reasonable to bring some closure to the family, but that isn't always possible.
    Take your well-thought out analysis and get the **** out of this thread.

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Alright what the ****.

    Since Orius you have not yield to my request so be it time to pay the Devil.

    First and for most your not an American so your feeble opion doesn't count nor shall it ever. We ( The United States) have had a standing policy since the end of our Civil War to NEVER Leave our dead on the Field and to never give up the search for OUR POW/MIA. It is part of the DoD job and is funded thru Congress to do so.

    I suggest you take the time and read this link before you make any more assinine comments.

    JPAC - Joint Prisoners of War, Missing in Action Accounting Command

    Oh and for the record your Country of Canada also does these types of searchs. About 3 Months ago four Canadian Soldier remain were found at Dieppe and return back to Canada.

    As for you rathi, you have no idea what your talking about we do not just go after Pilots that have been capture we go after all of our Men and Women does Jessica Lynch ring a bell for you huh???

    As for are MIA searchs I also suggest you go and read the link that I posted and then after come back and HUMBLE admit you were wrong.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Search and rescue assets are a vital part of a standing military. Pilots are worth their weight in gold, and being able to recover them is a significant edge in combat. However, with the lack of pilots getting shot down in Iraq, the soldiers tasked to such roles are not being employed. Using them in missions of secondary priority like this is a reasonable use of resources. Considering the PR value in a time when recruiting is down, the cost benefit analysis is quite favorable.
    While Captain Speicher was listed as KIA, his whereabouts were unknown. As far as the U.S. military knew, he was a POW, and not deceased. Of course they are going to try and keep looking for his whereabouts...AS THEY SHOULD.

  4. #44
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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    As for you rathi, you have no idea what your talking about we do not just go after Pilots that have been capture we go after all of our Men and Women does Jessica Lynch ring a bell for you huh???
    I never made such a claim. Our military rescues everyone it can, but circumstances prevent it from always being able to rescue everyone. Pilots are harder to replace than other soldiers, so they get priority for rescue. In Iraq, rescue is almost always practical because most units aren't engaged in heavy combat. In Vietnam, we didn't have that luxury and had to leave a lot of people behind.

    As for are MIA searchs I also suggest you go and read the link that I posted and then after come back and HUMBLE admit you were wrong.
    Considering that you completely misunderstood my argument, I would suggest you don't go around calling other people humble.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While Captain Speicher was listed as KIA, his whereabouts were unknown. As far as the U.S. military knew, he was a POW, and not deceased. Of course they are going to try and keep looking for his whereabouts...AS THEY SHOULD
    The chances of him still being a POW were close to zero. Saddam would have jumped at the propaganda oppurtunity, and we would have found records during the invasion. The investigation was to bring closure to the family and boost morale.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Of course not, which is why I don't presume to know better than they do.



    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not affirmatively claiming that it was a good investment. I'm saying that:

    1) The military is not populated by 35 IQ morons,
    2) They have obviously thought this topic through far more than you or I,
    3) They have access to far more information than you or I, and
    4) It would be absolutely foolish for me to assume that I can decide whether they're right or wrong based on my incredibly limited knowledge.
    This is the most reasonable post out of everyone here, and I accept it. Thank you for not being volatile.

    I was also thinking that another good reason to recover a particular individual would be if their recovery could mean learning about valuable intelligence. I do know that even Canada would pursue someone for this reason... but I'm not aware of any protocol for universally recovering any and all soldiers indefinitely, and if there were such a policy I would not support it.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    This is the most reasonable post out of everyone here, and I accept it. Thank you for not being volatile.

    I was also thinking that another good reason to recover a particular individual would be if their recovery could mean learning about valuable intelligence. I do know that even Canada would pursue someone for this reason... but I'm not aware of any protocol for universally recovering any and all soldiers indefinitely, and if there were such a policy I would not support it.
    Please stop talking. It's abundantly clear that you know nothing about this subject.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    This is the most reasonable post out of everyone here, and I accept it. Thank you for not being volatile.

    I was also thinking that another good reason to recover a particular individual would be if their recovery could mean learning about valuable intelligence. I do know that even Canada would pursue someone for this reason... but I'm not aware of any protocol for universally recovering any and all soldiers indefinitely, and if there were such a policy I would not support it.
    Well then I guess your not much of a True Canadian then are you mine as well stay in Chine oh opps can't stay their either they also have a policy of searching and recovering their MIA's hmm let see then the only Country that I know of that doesn't have a ongoing JPAC version is England their you go found you a Country you can now go and live in.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Search and rescue assets are a vital part of a standing military. Pilots are worth their weight in gold, and being able to recover them is a significant edge in combat. However, with the lack of pilots getting shot down in Iraq, the soldiers tasked to such roles are not being employed. Using them in missions of secondary priority like this is a reasonable use of resources. Considering the PR value in a time when recruiting is down, the cost benefit analysis is quite favorable.

    That said, people need to remember that war is a zero-sum game. Every resource spent in one place means that it isn't available somewhere else. Pilots get rescued because they are valuable, you don't see that kind of effort expended finding a rifleman. In this case it was reasonable to bring some closure to the family, but that isn't always possible.
    This makes a lot more sense... thanks for shedding light on it for me.

    Can I ask why pilots are more valuable? Is it because they are harder to train? In my mind, ground troops have a higher chance of encountering situations of valuable intelligence, whereas pilots are just in the air as part of their combat.

    Also... I just want to clarify that I think short-term search and rescue makes sense. If someone goes missing now then looking for them now is practical. I just don't think it's practical to actively search for someone for 18 years, unless that individual is suspected of having special intelligence that is useful to operations.
    Last edited by Orion; 08-05-09 at 06:45 AM.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    This makes a lot more sense... thanks for shedding light on it for me.

    Can I ask why pilots are more valuable? Is it because they are harder to train? In my mind, ground troops have a higher chance of encountering situations of valuable intelligence, whereas pilots are just in the air as part of their combat.

    Also... I just want to clarify that I think short-term search and rescue makes sense. If someone goes missing now then looking for them now is practical. I just don't think it's practical to actively search for someone for 18 years, unless that individual is suspected of having special intelligence that is useful to operations.
    I think the only way you could say pilots are more valuable is just in the cost of training alone. Beyond that I think the military command in the U.S. considers pretty much everyone equal when it comes to rescue/retrieval.

    I don't think they were actively searching for 18 years, but rather the file has been left open until definitive answers were provided. In terms of cost, I don't think one soldier will be that costly as to second guess whether this policy should continue. On the other hand I think we should accept that in a conflict the size of WWII it is simply impractical to search for every soldier. But even today when proof or evidence can lead to recovery, the government has never had an issue with the costs. It is both good for moral for the soldiers, but also in a way a small price we can as citizens pay back to those who sacrificed.

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    Re: Remains of U.S. Pilot Missing 18 Years in Iraq Found

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Wow, what a waste of resources.



    Honor is not for everyone I guess.... Never leave a man behind...
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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