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Thread: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

  1. #51
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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    There was nothing about morals in that at all. You claimed Americans can't legally upload or download. I explained why that statement is wrong. Americans can upload and download. We can even upload and download IP. We just can't upload and download IP in violation of IP laws. So I can upload content for my family to a server or as backup, I just can't upload content for the entire world without the permission of the IP holder.
    I meant downloading copyrighted content. I was just shortening the statement. Everytime I say "download" or "upload" I don't want to have to type out the long form. Everyone knows what I mean. Please stop splitting hairs over this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Additionally I showed how its illegal for Canadians to upload and download IP in violation of "fair dealing", though music is currently an exception because of levies and ambiguity in the court ruling. However, software, movies, and art are still protected with laws similiar to that in the US.
    Then I respect the Canadian government consulting the Canadian public and making its own laws if necessary. What I don't support is an American company lobbying our government with millions of dollars to change our laws to fit the American system. Your companies can take their lobbying and shove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    The problem is if I can get something for free instead of paying for it then I'm not going to pay for it.
    As I said previously, the corporations would suffer a profit loss under a two-tier system, but they would still make profit. They just don't want to accept the cut.

    The system is not going to change for corporate powers. Governments can make all the laws they want and increase punishments, people wil adapt with better programs for hiding their downloading presence, and will continue to trade in the digital world. I'm not worried.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    The levy system in Canada attempts to address this but it has several serious flaws.
    As I said before, then it's up to owners of IP in Canada to lobby for change, not American mega-corporations,

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I'm not a corporation and I think IP should stay as it is. Furthermore, even IF the corporations wanted it for whatever strawman you wish to knock down, the rationale for IP continues to stand..
    And I don't care, nor does the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Actually it still is. From what I read you can download whatever the hell is on the net but you can't upload except if it falls under "fair dealing", which if you are uploading to torrents or sharing sites would be illegal. However, I doubt they'd come after you but it still clarified as illegal in Canada.
    I was not aware of this, which goes to show you the level of enforcement. Canadians are even more relaxed about downloading. Our government is not going to invest money in enforcement at the behest of American corporations, or at least I'd hope not. If enforcement is needed then it is Canadian companies and IP holders that need to lobby for it. Anything else is undemocratic.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I looked for this and found nothing about sampling or demo and this 24 hour grace period. Got a link?
    No I don't... it's what a law professor told me at school a couple of years ago. I have no source.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Assuming this demo and sampling you are doing is even legal in Canada. So far I've found nothing that suggests anyone for whatever reason can violate Canadian copyright law.
    The trend of pushing for enforcement comes mostly from the U.S. Your companies are making this campaign global, but I don't see very much crying from companies in Canada, Sweden, or anywhere else that the mega-corporations are trying to undemocratically push for higher enforcement and penalties.

    I find it entertaining to watch them chase their tails all over the world, using up millions in litigation, all the while people everywhere continue to share content.

    They are dinosaurs and their ways will go extinct. Open source is the future, and so is a two-tier market. The sooner they accept it, the sooner they will stop losing money.

  2. #52
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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think in the long run it will cost the record more money going after these these people.
    It costs them more to sue a person than they will likely ever get back. True. But the thought is that they may prevent other thieves. I don't know if they actually will, but that's the thought.

    Theft requires illegally depriving someone of their property, these people were not deprived of their property.
    Yes they were. The law rightly recognizes intellectual property rights. Which is a good thing. A song belongs to the people who wrote and recorded it and it's up to them to decide how it gets distributed. If you distribute their song in a way they do not approve of they have every right to demand compensation. Just like if you made copies of Harry Potter books and sold them. It's not your book to distribute.
    Wow. Am I awesome or what?

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    Yes they were. The law rightly recognizes intellectual property rights. Which is a good thing. A song belongs to the people who wrote and recorded it and it's up to them to decide how it gets distributed. If you distribute their song in a way they do not approve of they have every right to demand compensation. Just like if you made copies of Harry Potter books and sold them. It's not your book to distribute.
    You need to learn the difference between theft and piracy. They are not the same thing. One involves removal of the original, the other involves making copies and distributing without permission.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Now please excuse me while I download 50 songs in protest.
    Way ahead of you


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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    Yes they were. The law rightly recognizes intellectual property rights. Which is a good thing. A song belongs to the people who wrote and recorded it and it's up to them to decide how it gets distributed. If you distribute their song in a way they do not approve of they have every right to demand compensation. Just like if you made copies of Harry Potter books and sold them. It's not your book to distribute.
    You still didn't explain how they were deprived of something, you just said they were and moved on without actually elaborating.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    You need to learn the difference between theft and piracy. They are not the same thing. One involves removal of the original, the other involves making copies and distributing without permission.
    Amen to that! A lot of people confuse the two because of the music and movie industry's idiotic "piracy = theft" campaign.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Amen to that! A lot of people confuse the two because of the music and movie industry's idiotic "piracy = theft" campaign.
    Then there some people who say the idiotic "theft = piracy" line that - when corrected - respond with the even stupider "They are both crimes (implying that they are therefore the same)" retort.. so? They are both crimes, that doesn't make them the same, and proof by absurdity can be used to re-enforce this logical gap.

    To quote a poster on mediafilter.com who put it better than I:

    Quote Originally Posted by russilwvong (poster on mediafilter)


    - If A=B, then B=A. Equality is symmetric. Got that? With me so far?
    - Therefore, if copyright infringement is theft, then theft is copyright infringement.
    - Therefore, if I reach into your bag and take your lunch and run away, I have infringed the copyright you hold in your lunch.

    Just in the interest of logical consistency I have to point out this is a flawed argument. Copyright infringement could be a subset of theft; I don't believe so myself but it's a possibility in the logic. As a proof by absurdity, if Murder=Crime then Crime=Murder and therefore if I have jaywalked I am a murderer.

    Set theory is very important.
    Suspension de l?abonnement internet | MetaFilter
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 08-05-09 at 11:56 AM.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    You still didn't explain how they were deprived of something, you just said they were and moved on without actually elaborating.
    They are deprived of distributing 'their' property it in the way they choose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    You need to learn the difference between theft and piracy. They are not the same thing. One involves removal of the original, the other involves making copies and distributing without permission.
    Amen to that! A lot of people confuse the two because of the music and movie industry's idiotic "piracy = theft" campaign.
    When a person illegally takes possession of another's property (whether or not it is just a copy), not only are they violating a 'Right", it can still be defined as theft, stealing and even larceny.
    A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent.
    Theft legal definition of Theft. Theft synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    They are deprived of distributing 'their' property it in the way they choose.


    When a person illegally takes possession of another's property (whether or not it is just a copy), not only are they violating a 'Right", it can still be defined as theft, stealing and even larceny.
    How exactly is it their property? To me it's no different than copying songs from a cd to make a mix tape or cd for someone. Downloading a copy of something is not, nor will it ever be theft. I'm not discouraging people from buying cds here. If I'm going to shell out $20 for a cd I'm going to make damn sure beforehand that I like that album. The current system of picking 2 or 3 tracks off of an album for radio play and expecting people to purchase that entire album blindly based on that is not only disingenuous but incredibly stupid. You may choose to purchase albums based on this system, but I don't.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Another thief gets busted.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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