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Thread: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

  1. #11
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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Well you seem to think that a record company shouldn't make any money and give their product away for free. That's pretty asinine.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well you seem to think that a record company shouldn't make any money and give their product away for free. That's pretty asinine.
    Please cite where I said I think record companies should make zero profits and give their product away for free.

    Thanks.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    The news report is misleading.

    He was not found guilty of "downloading".

    His crime was in making it 'available for others', allowing them to download the files from his computer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Would that employer also be fining me $650,000 if I refuse to work for free?
    Some people would turn that firing around and attempt to sue their employer for that amount if they felt they were wrongly terminated.


    Regardless the fine imposed on the individual is excessive.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Regardless the fine imposed on the individual is excessive
    This is my main beef. The recording industry can continue its crusade all it wants. I find it mostly entertaining, because it's not going to succeed, not unless the government shuts down the entire internet.

    I just find it unfortunate that people like this student have to be sacrificed on the alter of their profit status quo in order to serve as some kind of example for people who download and share. All it's doing is pissing people off and having the opposite effect.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I find it mostly entertaining, because it's not going to succeed, not unless the government shuts down the entire internet.

    ... All it's doing is pissing people off and having the opposite effect.
    I understand that thos who want something for nothing are po'd, but I don't know if it actually is having the opposite effect.

    I feel the fine is excessive, but that examples do need to be set.
    And lets be clear hear.
    Contrary to the wording being used in the article and by the RIAA, this isn't about downloading, but the act of making available and allowing others to download it from a his computer. (Distributing)

    The government doesn't have to shut down the internet.
    All a government has to do (not that it should) is make the above act, and the act of 'downloading' copyrighted works without without the holders permission illegal, and then engage in criminal prosecution.
    Once people begin to be burdened with criminal convictions that effect the rest of their life, most of the people doing so (downloading), will sharply decrease.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    I understand that thos who want something for nothing are po'd, but I don't know if it actually is having the opposite effect.

    I feel the fine is excessive, but that examples do need to be set.
    And lets be clear hear.
    Contrary to the wording being used in the article and by the RIAA, this isn't about downloading, but the act of making available and allowing others to download it from a his computer. (Distributing)

    The government doesn't have to shut down the internet.
    All a government has to do (not that it should) is make the above act, and the act of 'downloading' copyrighted works without without the holders permission illegal, and then engage in criminal prosecution.
    Once people begin to be burdened with criminal convictions that effect the rest of their life, most of the people doing so (downloading), will sharply decrease.
    I don't agree. There have already been several cases like this appearing in the news and people are still downloading and distributing all over the world. People won't care because they won't feel threatened. What these companies do to people in the United States has zero effect on people like me who live outside of the U.S. The power of the recording industry has limits, not matter how hard they try to strong arm the public into obeying them.

    I for one have zero intention of stopping my downloads, and I will distribute those files on demand. I hate watching t.v. because of the commercials, and DVDs are too expensive, so I'm still going to download my shows.

    These companies don't realize that the best marketing is the most honest marketing. Create a product that in of itself is something people will want to go out and buy. They have to provide positive incentives which will make people buy their intellectual property, instead of download it. Instead, they are going the route of negative incentives, which will only make consumers lose confidence in their products.

    I personally won't respond to bullies.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Not only is the law inconsistently applied, it flies in the face of the will of the people. How many people in the United States actually want to see downloading made illegal so people can face such steep penalties? Definitely not the majority.

    The U.S. continues to prove that it is looking out for the assets of the barons of industry before they are looking out for the welfare and security of citizens. $650,000 for 30 songs is an outrageous penalty, and it could have been even higher.

    The student said that if the verdict sticks, he will have to file for bankruptcy. Another life ruined, all because the music industry wants to set an example. These companies are the ones destroying music, not the downloaders.

    Now please excuse me while I download 50 songs in protest.
    I think the individual should be fined no more than the market value of the songs if he paid for them at a store. And if they are going to fine people for distribution. Then the record company should have to prove in a court of law exactly how many people this individual distributed this song too and still make him pay market value of this song.For example he uploads to 70 people and this song can be purchased for dollar on a legal download site then that fine for distributing that song should be 70 dollars assuming those each of those 70 people fully downloaded a whole song from that individual and not just partial download. If they can't prove this then they have no business making people pay these excessive fines.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I don't agree.
    Honestly, that is ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    People won't care because they won't feel threatened.
    Hence why illegalization of downloading will be the next step with criminal prosecutions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    What these companies do to people in the United States has zero effect on people like me who live outside of the U.S.
    Until it is illegalized.
    At which point the same thing happening to hacker will happen.



    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I for one have zero intention of stopping my downloads, and I will distribute those files on demand. I hate watching t.v. because of the commercials, and DVDs are too expensive, so I'm still going to download my shows.
    Don't go and tell on yourself.
    Personally, I would stay away from torrents and file sharing programs.
    The risk is greater with using them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Create a product that in of itself is something people will want to go out and buy.
    They already have one.
    It is those who want something for nothing that are taking advantage.



    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    They have to provide positive incentives which will make people buy their intellectual property, instead of download it.
    The positive incentive is, you get the product. But that incentive is no match when people think they can take it for free.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Hence why illegalization of downloading will be the next step with criminal prosecutions.
    Won't happen in places where it is needed the most, like China. The recording industry can try to lobby every government in the world, but it won't work... and even if it does, good luck tracking everyone who downloads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Until it is illegalized.
    At which point the same thing happening to hacker will happen.
    The digital and internet community will just compensate with anonymizers, as they are already doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    Don't go and tell on yourself.
    Personally, I would stay away from torrents and file sharing programs.
    The risk is greater with using them.
    No there isn't. Stop fearmongering on behalf of the recording industry. I use an anonymizer so my downloading is untraceable. You should use one anyway because some torrents are not secure and your computer can theoretically be infultrated via exploited bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    They already have one.
    It is those who want something for nothing that are taking advantage.
    No they don't. There is no difference between buying a DVD and downloading one in terms of product value. I just want to watch the movie, I don't care about the excess packaging (which is bad for the environment, btw). Once I watch the movie, I usually delete it... and if it's a bad movie, I will never watch it again. If it's a really good movie, I might buy the DVD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    The positive incentive is, you get the product. But that incentive is no match when people think they can take it for free.
    Not true. First of all, the recording industry, along with the movie industry, has perpetuated the lie that they have lost billions of dollars. If you do a bit of research, you will discover that this figure is not based on records of their corporate bank accounts, but rather on the calculation that one download equals one lost sale.

    In actual fact, many people who download end up buying, but this is never factored into their published profit losses. They're not even reporting their losses with honesty, so why should I even care how their company is being affected? All they care about is villainizing people who are simply using a tool of a new, digital era, where content sharing is seamless and universal.

    I think the benefits to human kind outweigh the costs. If these industries can't stay affloat, then it's evolution in progress. Something else will come along that is compatible with the information age, that actually wants to share and be open source.
    Last edited by Orion; 08-02-09 at 02:28 PM.

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    Re: Student ordered to pay $650,000 for downloads

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Not only is the law inconsistently applied, it flies in the face of the will of the people. How many people in the United States actually want to see downloading made illegal so people can face such steep penalties? Definitely not the majority.
    So why don't you get your Congressman to revise the law?

    Seems like that's an easier way of dealing with all of this.
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