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Thread: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

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    Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/08/01/homicide-verdict-faith-healing.html
    A Wisconsin man who prayed instead of seeking medical care while his 11-year-old daughter died was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.

    Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the 2003 death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes.

    Prosecutors said the girl couldn't walk, talk, eat or speak. But instead of taking her to hospital, people surrounded her and prayed while she lay on the floor of the family's home in rural Weston, Wis. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.
    Neumann's wife Leilani, 41, was convicted of the same charge in the spring and is scheduled for sentencing Oct. 6. Both face up to 25 years in prison.

    Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, testified Thursday that he believed God would heal his daughter and he never expected her to die. God promises in the Bible to heal, he said.
    I'm glad that courts and juries are setting a standard of convicting these people for their stupid behavior. This girl would could be alive today if it weren't for such a level of arrogance.

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    You have proof she would be alive today?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You have proof she would be alive today?
    You have proof that bringing her to a hospital instead of an insano prayer group wouldn't have potentially saved her?

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Potentially is the word. But tons of people die in hospitals every year. That's not proof she would have lived.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Potentially is the word. But tons of people die in hospitals every year. That's not proof she would have lived.
    Please provide peer reviewed sources which state that prayer healing is more effective for children with diabetes than taking them to a scientifically trained, medical professional.

    You can spin it any way you like... taking her to the hospital was her best chance of survival. All she needed was insulin and monitoring of her blood sugar... something very simple in modern times.

    I'm generally in favor of separation of church in state, but not in a case like this where the best course of action was VERY clear.

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You have proof she would be alive today?
    Few if any otherwise healthy children die of diabetes if they receive timely medical intervention.

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You have proof she would be alive today?
    "Doctors testified that Madeline would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing."

    Wis. jury: Father guilty in prayer death case - Yahoo! News

    Also:

    "Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson told jurors in closing arguments Friday that Neumann was "overwhelmed by pride" in his interpretation of the Bible and selfishly let Madeline die as a test of faith."

    Couldn't have said it better myself.

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Wow there is such things as justice after all. Hope they rot in jail .
    PeteEU

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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I'm glad that courts and juries are setting a standard of convicting these people for their stupid behavior. This girl would could be alive today if it weren't for such a level of arrogance.
    I completely welcome this verdict. While each one of us is entitled to our own religious beliefs, these beliefs do not give us the right to hurt others, even if we feel we are helping, or the right to encroach upon the legal and moral rights of others due to our own understanding of God.

    That little kid depended on her parents for care, and her life was sacrificed on the altar of their ideology. They WANTED prayer heling to work, so they were going to wait for it to work, even as their own child lay dying. It's wrong, it's obscene, and it should never happen again.
    Last edited by Anima; 08-02-09 at 09:41 AM.
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    Re: Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

    Being a diabetic I can assure you that treatment is not mysterious, miraculous, or even complicated. It's simple straight forward and from what I have seen almost always effective in prolonging life.
    The power of prayer is mysterious and unquantifiable when it appears that they are at the center of a miraculous recovery Doctors are often baffled, but there are most likely just as many unexplained recoveries where there is no claim that prayer was involved at all. People who believe the only power to heal is in Gods hands need to be taught that the knowledge Doctors have and the medicine the was made possible because God deemed it so and that he imparted that knowledge so that man will benefit from it. All prayers are answered but some times the answer is no. but it his will that everything he made available be used and if in the end a child passes on know that children are without sin and will be welcomed into Gods kingdom with open arms.
    All people of Faith need to know the story of the Flood. As the flood neared a religious man sent his family to higher ground but he remained behind to protect his property telling his wife God will protect him. As the water reached 3' he was setting on the porch when a big National Guard truck came by and an officer said get on mister the main part of the flood will be here soon. No thank you said the man I'll be fine God will protect me. The truck drove on. Shortly after that the water was 6' deep and the man moved to the second floor as rescue boat came by. Get in mister the main flood is on it's way. No thank you sad the man God will look after me. After the boat went away the water got even deeper and the man moved to the roof, and in a short time a helicopter flew over and the pilot said over a loud speaker climb up the rope ladder mister the main part of the flood will be here in minutes. No thank you said the man God will save me. The chopper flew off. It was only minutes that the water covered the roof and the man died in the flood. As he arrived in Heaven God ask the man, why are you here it wasn't your time. The man said I stayed behind because I thought you would save me. God shook his head and said. I sent a truck, a boat, and a helicopter what more could I do?
    God didn't let this couple down they let God down.

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