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Prayer healing case convicted of homicide

American said:
Prosecutors said the girl couldn't walk, talk, eat or speak.

Sounds like she was beyond help.
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Yeah, because they let it go and the disease progressed. You don't just end up that way overnight. With treatment that would have most definitely been avoided.
 
formerroadie said:
Are you serious?
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Very serious. It's not the government's job, nor it's place to protect us from our own stupidity. If this girl's parents are stupid enough to think that prayer, alone is going to save their daughter, then they are dumb as hell. This girl is a product of that union. She'll grow up to be just as stupid, breeding her own kids that are just as stupid, if not moreso. The cycle has to end. We can't disallow stupid people to extint themselves. Besides that, it's a violation of religious freedom.
 
apdst said:
Very serious. It's not the government's job, nor it's place to protect us from our own stupidity. If this girl's parents are stupid enough to think that prayer, alone is going to save their daughter, then they are dumb as hell. This girl is a product of that union. She'll grow up to be just as stupid, breeding her own kids that are just as stupid, if not moreso. The cycle has to end. We can't disallow stupid people to extint themselves. Besides that, it's a violation of religious freedom.
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Dude, I'm a Libertarian and even I think you're out of your mind. We aren't talking about someone wanting to home school their kids or teach them neo-Nazism or something. We're talking about parents whose neglect caused this child to suffer and lose her life. What they did is murder, even if that wasn't their intention. Yes, she was their child but that does not give them the right to kill her.
 
Don't Tase Me Bro said:
Dude, I'm a Libertarian and even I think you're out of your mind. We aren't talking about someone wanting to home school their kids or teach them neo-Nazism or something. We're talking about parents whose neglect caused this child to suffer and lose her life. What they did is murder, even if that wasn't their intention. Yes, she was their child but that does not give them the right to kill her.
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"Libertarian", is nothing but a term to describe folks who are embarressed to call themselves Liberals.

What we're talking here, are two people who trully believed that prayer would save their kid. The government has no right to prosecute them for their beliefs. If the government wanted to get involved, they should have remanded custody of the child. Since the kid is dead, the government no longer has a roll. What they did is no different than taking their kid to a doctor, believing that the doctor can save her and she died, anyway. Should the parents in that case, along with the doctor be tried for murder? I know, let's do away with wrongful death lawsuits and go straight to murder trials.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Care to back that up or are your just talking out of your ass as usual.
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That's my opinion, but, have you seen any Rightwing Libertarians?

Notice that Bro isn't real quick to show up with any sources to back up his point of view?
 
apdst said:
That's my opinion, but, have you seen any Rightwing Libertarians?
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Are you kidding me?
Every libertarian I know is more Right than Left.
Think about it, liberals are for things like bigger government, more welfare programs, etc... all of which is anathema to Libertarians.
I'd say the polar opposite of libertarianism is socialism, and many Liberals have socialist leanings.
 
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1069 said:
Are you kidding me?
Every libertarian I know is more Right than Left.
Think about it, liberals are for things like bigger government, more welfare programs, etc... all of which is anathema to Libertarians.
I'd say the polar opposite of libertarianism is socialism, and many Liberals have socialist leanings.
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That hasn't been my observation.
 
apdst said:
I notice that your, "lean", says, "independent", too.
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It said Libertarian until this week. People busted on me about having "libertarian" because there are a number of issues where I am, in fact, adamantly conservative. I got tired of it and switched the label to "independent".
 
Goshin said:
Hm. I don't think you know too many libertarians then.
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I do. Libertarians that I know want lower taxes first and foremost. A very close second, they want less government spending. Following not too far behind these, near absolute property rights. A relatively more distant fourth, they want government to generally stay out of their lives... from drug legalization to sexual liberty, they consider it no one's business. My experience with libertarians on the Internet has been much the same as in my personal life.

What do you think Libertarian's priorities generally are?
 
Dezaad said:
I do. Libertarians that I know want lower taxes first and foremost. A very close second, they want less government spending. Following not too far behind these, near absolute property rights. A relatively more distant fourth, they want government to generally stay out of their lives... from drug legalization to sexual liberty, they consider it no one's business. My experience with libertarians on the Internet has been much the same as in my personal life.

What do you think Libertarian's priorities generally are?
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I was replying to apdst. Your list looks roughly correct for American Libertarianism, though there are many variations in libertarian philosophy. Some of the Libertarian Party's planks, I don't agree with, but I'm with them on more things than not.
 
American said:
You have proof she would be alive today?
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There was proof the parents failed to do what was necessary to try to keep her alive, and in fact, flatly refused to do so, even though the treatment for the child's disease is well established, successful and easy to apply.

The sad part is that none of the others in the prayer-sacrifice were prosecuted as accessories.
 
1069 said:
Are you kidding me?
Every libertarian I know is more Right than Left.
Think about it, liberals are for things like bigger government, more welfare programs, etc... all of which is anathema to Libertarians.
I'd say the polar opposite of libertarianism is socialism, and many Liberals have socialist leanings.
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Haha, I left the Republican party when it became too big government. I think there is a large breadth of different people identifying as libertarian, but there is quite a bit of American libertarianism which matches up with classical conservatism. The GOP just isn't classically conservative anymore.
 
American said:
Prosecutors said the girl couldn't walk, talk, eat or speak.

Sounds like she was beyond help.
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Patients go into diabetic comas (people in coma can't walk, talk, eat, or speak), and survive IF they have proper medical attention. They always die without it.
 
apdst said:
One more step in the direction away from freedom.
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What freedom?

Religious freedom is the freedom of the individual to dedicate and sacrifice their own life for their religious beliefs. The sacrifice of others is not part of it.

This isn't 1650, diabetes is a known condition with a known cause and a known treatment. Neither parent was justified in withholding medical treatment, nor were any of the "concerned" bystanders, all of whom should be indicted and jailed as accessories.

That child had the right to live and was denied that by her parents. What about her freedoms now?
 
The child had no choice in the matter. Her parents decided for her. And I think that God will punish them for their actions.
Children are not PROPERTY. Even pets and livestock get better protection from the law....
and definitely, the others in the prayer group are complicit, at the least they should be labeled as child abusers....
 
apdst said:
Very serious. It's not the government's job, nor it's place to protect us from our own stupidity.
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But it is the government's job to protect the child from her parents' stupidity.

apdst said:
If this girl's parents are stupid enough to think that prayer, alone is going to save their daughter, then they are dumb as hell. This girl is a product of that union. She'll grow up to be just as stupid, breeding her own kids that are just as stupid, if not moreso. The cycle has to end. We can't disallow stupid people to extint themselves. Besides that, it's a violation of religious freedom.
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Oh, lots and lots of children de-program themselves from their religious upbringing. Doesn't take much, generally twenty bucks and trip to Tijuana is enough for most males to forget that original sin nonsense.
 
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