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Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

CaptainCourtesy said:
Moderator's Warning:
Scorpion and Laila...stop the personal attacks now.
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Might as well let them have at it, obviously nobody cares to actually engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic anyways.
 
sam_w said:
Might as well let them have at it, obviously nobody cares to actually engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic anyways.
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Sorry we screwed up your thread
 
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sam_w said:
Might as well let them have at it, obviously nobody cares to actually engage in a thoughtful discussion on this topic anyways.
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What is there to talk about anyway Sam huh Hamas is nothing more then a bunch of animals that should be hunted down and killed.

In post #6 I pointed out the only way Hamas should even be consider allowed at any table.
 
Oh, i am biting my tongue

Well i'm not after 3 more points ... take it to the basement and leave Sam's thread alone
 
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Scorpion89 said:
What is there to talk about anyway Sam huh Hamas is nothing more then a bunch of animals that should be hunted down and killed.

In post #6 I pointed out the only way Hamas should even be consider allowed at any table.
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Consider the following:

A.) Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S., but has never conducted a single operation known against the U.S. The only Palestinian terror against U.S. interests have been by outlier groups associated more with Marxists. In fact, in 2001 Hamas leaders warned of Al-Qaeda influence among Palestinians as destructive. Jailed Hamas leaders have stated that Al-Qaeda must not be allowed to grow or operate in their territory.

B.) It is no secret that the U.S. negotiated with insurgents in Iraq we labeled as terrorists, as well as the Taliban now. We also once labeled the PLO as terrorists, yet look at how things are now.

Again I would reiterate that the thought once of Israel and Egypt conducting a peace accord was unthinkable. It was also even more unthinkable that Yassir Arafat representing the PLO would be shaking hands with Rabin. Yet there they were just a decade ago on the White House lawn.

Question is if Hamas is sending out "feelers", shouldn't this at least be considered? By the way, I am not naive enough to think there is not already communication between the two. I believe part of the policy in restoring relations with Syria was meant not just as an attempt to wedge Iran from Syria, but also Iran from Hamas. I think a further goal may very well be an attempt at pushing Syria to exert pressure on Hamas to change their policy.

I think most will acknowledge that there will be no peaceful solution without Hamas's involvement. They are after all a major player that controls as much power as the P.A.
 
The problem is Hamas has NEVER kept their word, and they need to do some proving they are serious before Israel should even BOTHER listening to them.
 
MrVicchio said:
The problem is Hamas has NEVER kept their word, and they need to do some proving they are serious before Israel should even BOTHER listening to them.
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Thomas Friedman has an editorial up titled:
Free Marriage Counseling
......Don’t get into the business of apportioning historical blame for this conflict, which his Cairo speech veered into. Palestinians don’t believe they are to blame for this problem; neither do Israelis. A religious Israeli professor friend of mine said it well: “People will give a lot if they think they are not guilty. My mother says to me: ‘Look, I am ready to give them Jerusalem, but don’t tell me that I started it.’ ”
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It does make a lot of sense, as too often it seems the entire debate is always entirely on past acts, without any substantial discussion on the future. He was not referring I believe at all to Hamas, but rather the P.A. who are seen as the only legitimate negotiating body. But that in itself represents a problem as the P.A. in reality only represent a portion of the population both political and social.

So then is the solution to force the P.A. to negotiate solely with Hamas and win at least recognition that the P.A. is the only body that can have talks? I doubt Hamas would ever agree to that. My impression is they want to be at the table, at the very least for fear of the possibility a settlement could be reached by the P.A. alone.
 
Israel allowing Palestinians to return?

hahahaha
 
Whatever Hamas proposes will probably never work. Those lying bastards don't want peace.
 
Orius said:
Israel allowing Palestinians to return?

hahahaha
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If they have their own state, what do they need to return for?
 
American said:
If they have their own state, what do they need to return for?
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You mean all the refugees that have fled to neighbouring countries and abroad in order to avoid persecution and destruction of their livelihood?

If Palestine became its own state, then obviously those people would want to return to their home land.
 
Orius said:
You mean all the refugees that have fled to neighbouring countries and abroad in order to avoid persecution and destruction of their livelihood?
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Do not try to paint it as if they were poor innocents who've fled the land after Israel has started a war with them and chased them out.
They started a war with Israel, yes, a war, in order to destroy, yes, destroy the Jewish state.
They should have been killed, I have no mercy for war starters and their supporters, they caused a lot of bloodshed and that is their punishment.

Also, on a side note, the ones who've fled the area are not the only ones who count as 'refugees'.
Their sons count as refugees as well, and so are their grandsons and their great grandsons and so on.
Get them all together and that's some millions of refugees, if Israel lets them in, as a democracy, it will be directly causing its own destruction.
No nation would ever do that, no matter how much you're going to whine about poor war-starters who've fled their lands.
 
Apocalypse said:
Do not try to paint it as if they were poor innocents who've fled the land after Israel has started a war with them and chased them out.
They started a war with Israel, yes, a war, in order to destroy, yes, destroy the Jewish state.
They should have been killed, I have no mercy for war starters and their supporters, they caused a lot of bloodshed and that is their punishment.

Also, on a side note, the ones who've fled the area are not the only ones who count as 'refugees'.
Their sons count as refugees as well, and so are their grandsons and their great grandsons and so on.
Get them all together and that's some millions of refugees, if Israel lets them in, as a democracy, it will be directly causing its own destruction.
No nation would ever do that, no matter how much you're going to whine about poor war-starters who've fled their lands.
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I'm reluctant to brand all Palestinians in the same light as their corrupt, terrorist government. So... think what you want, it's not that black and white. I've personally met Palestinian people in my travels who fled because they wanted to have some sort of normalcy, and they did not support their government's actions at all.

The people who suffer the most in war are the every day people who just wish the politics would shut up. It's people like you and I who play philosophical chess with their lives. I think they deserve more respect.
 
Apocalypse said:
Do not try to paint it as if they were poor innocents who've fled the land after Israel has started a war with them and chased them out.
They started a war with Israel, yes, a war, in order to destroy, yes, destroy the Jewish state.
They should have been killed, I have no mercy for war starters and their supporters, they caused a lot of bloodshed and that is their punishment.
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Wow, thanks for openly admitting that you are a racist and supporter of genocide.
 
Orius said:
The people who suffer the most in war are the every day people who just wish the politics would shut up. It's people like you and I who play philosophical chess with their lives. I think they deserve more respect.
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I don't play philosophical chess with anyone's lives, I'm guarding the lives on my own side of the border.
The Palestinians have the power to change their government, they do not do this.
Look at the life in the West Bank, and then look at the Gaza Strip.
If Hamas had no supporters it wouldn't exist to start with.
 
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Because I was speaking about a race.
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Calling for the extermination of the entire Palestinian people (which is, of course, what you did when you lumped them all together as "they") is not only racist but genocidal as well.

You can whine and try to divert the issue by claiming that you're not racist, but the fact remains that you have just admitted to supporting the killing of an entire people. I don't really care if you call it racist or not, as your own words have subverted any position you have on the conflict.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Calling for the extermination of the entire Palestinian people (which is, of course, what you did when you lumped them all together as "they") is not only racist but genocidal as well.

You can whine and try to divert the issue by claiming that you're not racist, but the fact remains that you have just admitted to supporting the killing of an entire people. I don't really care if you call it racist or not, as your own words have subverted any position you have on the conflict.
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I wasn't aware Palestinian is a race, Arab is.
You should get your facts straight before using such accusations, something that is unfortunately very common with ultra-leftist radicals.
Besides, I have meant to those same people who have started the war against Israel in 1948, they should have been killed for starting this war and I am not going to hide my opinions about war-starters.
 
Apocalypse said:
I wasn't aware Palestinian is a race, Arab is.
You should get your facts straight before using such accusations, something that is unfortunately very common with ultra-leftist radicals.
Besides, I have meant to those same people who have started the war against Israel in 1948, they should have been killed for starting this war and I am not going to hide my opinions about war-starters.
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Palestinians aren't Arabs. This is a term that was applied to them erroneously by colonials. They speak Arabic but this does not make them Arab. Their lineage is actually long and complex, combined with many different ethnicities (due to a variety of conquering forces over the years), but their original genetic code dates to the area in pre-Islamic times.

Proper Arabs come from Northern Africa, and are dark skinned.

Israelis and Palestinians share much of the same ethnic background in terms of the mixing that has occurred. It is ironic that the colonial occupiers divided them into two nations upon leaving... because they are essentially one people, ethnically speaking.

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you go off on other people.
 
Orius said:
Palestinians aren't Arabs. This is a term that was applied to them erroneously by colonials. They speak Arabic but this does not make them Arab. Their lineage is actually long and complex, combined with many different ethnicities (due to a variety of conquering forces over the years), but their original genetic code dates to the area in pre-Islamic times.

Proper Arabs come from Northern Africa, and are dark skinned.

Israelis and Palestinians share much of the same ethnic background in terms of the mixing that has occurred. It is ironic that the colonial occupiers divided them into two nations upon leaving... because they are essentially one people, ethnically speaking.

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you go off on other people.
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I'm sorry but you're bringing wrong facts into the argument here.
Palestinians are as Arab as they come, Gaza is mostly of Egyptian blood, West Bank of Saudi and Syrian blood.
They are by no means different from Israeli Arabs, as those were the same people who chose not to flee the land in 1948.
 
Apocalypse said:
I'm sorry but you're bringing wrong facts into the argument here.
Palestinians are as Arab as they come, Gaza is mostly of Egyptian blood, West Bank of Saudi and Syrian blood.
They are by no means different from Israeli Arabs, as those were the same people who chose not to flee the land in 1948.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_Palestine_and_Palestinian#By_ethnic_origin said:
The word "Palestinian" is occasionally used by ethnographers and linguists to denote the specific Arab subculture of the southern Levant; in that sense, it includes not only the Arabs of British Mandate Palestine, but also those inhabitants of Jordan who are originally from Palestine and the Druze, while excluding both Bedouin (who culturally and linguistically group with Arabia) and ethnic minorities such as the Dom and Samaritans. However, some of this definition is not accepted. The Samaritans of the West Bank are usually referred to as Palestinian.[10]

[edit] Referring to Jews in an ethnic rather than religious sense
The term "Palestinian" used to refer to Jews in Europe who were regarded as an alien presence. For example, Immanuel Kant referred to European Jews as "the Palestinians living among us."[11]
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As I said, some are ethnically Arab, but many are not. Palestinians, like Israelis, have a mixed heritage and their regions are multi-ethnic by definition. To refer to Palestinians as "Arab" alone is completely incorrect.
 
Orius said:
As I said, some are ethnically Arab, but many are not. Palestinians, like Israelis, have a mixed heritage and their regions are multi-ethnic by definition. To refer to Palestinians as "Arab" alone is completely incorrect.
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My point was that most of the Palestinians are Arabs.
I am aware of the existent of Palestinian Druze, and other minority races.
Again, Palestinian is not a race, your arguments are futile.
 
Apocalypse said:
Again, Palestinian is not a race, your arguments are futile.
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Me said:
You can whine and try to divert the issue by claiming that you're not racist, but the fact remains that you have just admitted to supporting the killing of an entire people. I don't really care if you call it racist or not, as your own words have subverted any position you have on the conflict.
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Apocalypse said:
Besides, I have meant to those same people who have started the war against Israel in 1948, they should have been killed for starting this war and I am not going to hide my opinions about war-starters.
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Unfortunately, though, your "they" was referring to all Palestinian refugees and not merely "war starters".
 
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