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Thread: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Unfortunately, though, your "they" was referring to all Palestinian refugees and not merely "war starters".
    Again, all of the Palestinian refugees would include mostly people who haven't even been there.

    You can continue to try and demonize my position, I will repeat it again, I have no mercy for war-starters and their supporters, if it includes you so be it.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Cite this with a peer reviewed source. Thanks.
    Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Palestinian people, (Arabic: الشعب الفلسطيني‎, ash-sha`b al-filasTīni) also referred to as Palestinians or Palestinian Arabs
    Enjoy your search.
    You might also look in Google for the ethnicities of Palestinians.
    I find this argument to be silly as it is quite obvious that most of the Palestinians are Arabs.
    It's pretty rare for me to encounter a non-Arab Palestinian.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Enjoy your search.
    You might also look in Google for the ethnicities of Palestinians.
    I find this argument to be silly as it is quite obvious that most of the Palestinians are Arabs.
    It's pretty rare for me to encounter a non-Arab Palestinian.
    Again, you are confusing the political terms invented for the Palestinians following the British partition of the land with ethnographic details. I asked you for peer reviewed sources and you did not provide any, which is inevitably why you are not coming up with accurate information.

    Now I'll provide one for you:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~duraid/stolen_science/The_Origin_of_Palestinians_and_Their_Genetic_Relat edness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf
    ABSTRACT: The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times.

    Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.
    As I stated earlier, ethnically, Israelis and Palestinians come from the same, mixed genetic heritage. The division between the two societies is cultural and political, not ethnic. Although there is some cross over between ancient Egyptians and the Canaanites, they are NOT the same as the dark skinned Arabs of Egypt today, and they do NOT, historically, or genetically, come from Egypt.

    Palestinians are NOT Arab. That was the name given to them by the British empire. Scroll to page 8 of the research paper to see a family tree of Palestinian relatedness to other peoples in the region.
    Last edited by Orion; 08-03-09 at 09:38 AM.

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Palestinians are NOT Arab. .
    and that is why they speak arabic, follow Arabic customs, adhere to the religion of Arabs, referred to themselves as Arabs until quite recent times and have no history as a people other than as Arabs.

    Because they are not Arabs
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    and that is why they speak arabic, follow Arabic customs, adhere to the religion of Arabs, referred to themselves as Arabs until quite recent times and have no history as a people other than as Arabs.

    Because they are not Arabs
    That's because they were conquered by Arabia centuries ago, one of many outside empires to do so, but that doesn't make them ethnically Arab. Their heritage is mixed for the simple reason that many different ethnic groups traded with them and conquered them in the past.

    Calling the Palestinians Arab is no different than calling Israeli's Arab. It makes no sense.

    Please do research on the Canaanites to better understand their ethnic makeup.

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    That's because they were conquered by Arabia centuries ago, one of many outside empires to do so, but that doesn't make them ethnically Arab. Their heritage is mixed for the simple reason that many different ethnic groups traded with them and conquered them in the past.

    Calling the Palestinians Arab is no different than calling Israeli's Arab. It makes no sense.

    Please do research on the Canaanites to better understand their ethnic makeup.
    You are quite confused. Blood and identity are two different issues. What is in the blood of the Arabs who recently started calling themselves Palestinians is one thing -- their sense of identity is another.


    I am an American. My sense of cultural identity is built upon having been raised in the American culture, likewise a few hundred million others. What is in our blood has no effect on our identity, at least for those who can trace their lineage back a few generations (enough to be fully assimilated) and so if your blood is traced to germany or russia or Italy while mine is traced to Ireland and Scotland, our sense of identity is the nevertheless no different if we are American.

    Palestinians are thoroughly assimilated Arabs, with over a thousand years to solidify this sense of identity. They did not refer to themselves as anything OTHER than Arab until quite recent times, and if they distinguished themselves at all, that was to call themselves southern syrians. What is or is not in their blood is irrelevant when speaking of their sense of identity - -a sense that forms the true barometer by which one measures what is and what is not a people.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You are quite confused. Blood and identity are two different issues. What is in the blood of the Arabs who recently started calling themselves Palestinians is one thing -- their sense of identity is another.


    I am an American. My sense of cultural identity is built upon having been raised in the American culture, likewise a few hundred million others. What is in our blood has no effect on our identity, at least for those who can trace their lineage back a few generations (enough to be fully assimilated) and so if your blood is traced to germany or russia or Italy while mine is traced to Ireland and Scotland, our sense of identity is the nevertheless no different if we are American.

    Palestinians are thoroughly assimilated Arabs, with over a thousand years to solidify this sense of identity. They did not refer to themselves as anything OTHER than Arab until quite recent times, and if they distinguished themselves at all, that was to call themselves southern syrians. What is or is not in their blood is irrelevant when speaking of their sense of identity - -a sense that forms the true barometer by which one measures what is and what is not a people.
    Blah blah blah...

    Apocalypse made the claim that Palestinians came from Egypt and that's why they are Arab. He's wrong. Stop butting your nose in where it doesn't belong with your erroneous perception on what this debate is even about. I'm not interested in your claims on identity. My debate is with him, not you.

    MANY Palestinians claim that they have a claim to the land based on their ETHNIC and HISTORICAL ties. Many have been claiming Canaanite heritage this entire time, something that has been hotly disputed because of what it would imply. The research study I posted is a recent genetic test to verify their claims.

    And guess what, they come from Canaanites!

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Blah blah blah...

    Apocalypse made the claim that Palestinians came from Egypt and that's why they are Arab. He's wrong. Stop butting your nose in where it doesn't belong with your erroneous perception on what this debate is even about. I'm not interested in your claims on identity. My debate is with him, not you.

    MANY Palestinians claim that they have a claim to the land based on their ETHNIC and HISTORICAL ties. Many have been claiming Canaanite heritage this entire time, something that has been hotly disputed because of what it would imply. The research study I posted is a recent genetic test to verify their claims.

    And guess what, they come from Canaanites!
    I will choose to comment on whatever I wish, son.


    You made the very definitive statement that Palestinians are not Arabs, and by doing so revealed that you are obviously confused. This particular statement is false. That I chose to focus on the falseness of your statement does not mean I agree or disagree with anything else discussed previously, only that I take exception to this rather fantastic claim of yours.

    I do not contest that the Arabs who began calling themselves Palestinian a few decades back include those with ancestry in the region. The Jewish people in the region can trace their own lineage back to the same Canaanites (modern archaeological evidence suggests very strongly that Jews were once Canaanites, having branched from the Canaanites 3500 years ago or so). These points are completely moot, though, in regards to your false statement that Palestinians are not Arabs. They are most certainly Arabs, having well over a thousand years identifying as Arabs and following Arab customs.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I will choose to comment on whatever I wish, son.


    You made the very definitive statement that Palestinians are not Arabs, and by doing so revealed that you are obviously confused. This particular statement is false. That I chose to focus on the falseness of your statement does not mean I agree or disagree with anything else discussed previously, only that I take exception to this rather fantastic claim of yours.

    I do not contest that the Arabs who began calling themselves Palestinian a few decades back include those with ancestry in the region. The Jewish people in the region can trace their own lineage back to the same Canaanites (modern archaeological evidence suggests very strongly that Jews were once Canaanites, having branched from the Canaanites 3500 years ago or so). These points are completely moot, though, in regards to your false statement that Palestinians are not Arabs. They are most certainly Arabs, having well over a thousand years identifying as Arabs and following Arab customs.
    Ethnically speaking, they are not Arabs. Period. That was my original point.

    I'm done debating with you. Go talk to the wall.

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    Re: Hamas Chief Outlines Terms for Talks on Arab-Israeli Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Go talk to the wall.
    I have been.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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