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China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

kaya'08

kaya'08

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Exiled Uighur leader Rebiya Kadeer charged Wednesday that nearly 10,000 people "disappeared" in ethnic unrest in China’s northwest this month and expressed disappointment at the U.S. response to the violence.

Kadeer, the U.S.-based head of the World Uighur Congress, said that "the Chinese government is trying to destroy the Uighur people," speaking during a Japan visit that angered the communist government in Beijing.

Speaking through an interpreter and citing local sources, she said "close to 10,000 people in Urumqi disappeared in one night" when authorities cracked down from July 5 on the unrest in the mainly Muslim region of Xinjiang.

"Where did those people go?" she said. "If they died, where did they go?"

Kadeer, 62, claimed that Chinese police used machine guns to randomly shoot Uighur people after dark after the electricity was turned off, and that the following morning large numbers of Uighur men had gone missing.

Beijing accuses the mother-of-11 and grandmother of being a "criminal" and a separatist who instigated the unrest -- which the government says left 197 people dead, most of them Han Chinese killed by angry Uighur mobs.
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Kadeer is due to attend the August 8 launch in Melbourne of the documentary "10 Conditions of Love," which depicts her life story and which prompted Chinese attempts to have it pulled from the citys film festival.

Kadeer on Tuesday drew support from another figure who has long been a thorn in Beijing’s side, the Dalai Lama, who told an audience in Warsaw that, like him, Kadeer believed in non-violence and was not seeking a separate state.

Uighur leader says nearly 10,000 missing in China unrest - Hürriyet Daily News and Economic Review
 
Time for a new genocide bill in congress?
 
Why? I understand your personal affinity for the Uighurs, but why should the rest of the world concern itself? Let the Chinese govern their own affairs, and if the Uighurs should either win independence or be made extinct, so be it.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Why? I understand your personal affinity for the Uighurs, but why should the rest of the world concern itself? Let the Chinese govern their own affairs, and if the Uighurs should either win independence or be made extinct, so be it.
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Birth. The new mandatory lottery.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Birth. The new mandatory lottery.
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Always has been. Do you think that anything that you or I could do, or any government of the world, or all of the governments of the world, could possibly change that? Everyone who is born dies eventually, and the same is true of cultures and nations. Even species die eventually.

By what reasoning should individual cultures and peoples be protected by outside parties?
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Always has been. Do you think that anything that you or I could do, or any government of the world, or all of the governments of the world, could possibly change that? Everyone who is born dies eventually, and the same is true of cultures and nations. Even species die eventually.

By what reasoning should individual cultures and peoples be protected by outside parties?
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I think world peace is achievable. Just requires the right spark.
 
I was one of the first to decry the actions of the Chinese government in Xinjiang on these forums, but I think that the 10,000 figure is an exaggeration. The numbers are high but not that high.

Ethnic cleansing is essentially underway though. People aren't being killed directly by development is targetting the removal of one group and replacing it with another.

Korimyr the Rat said:
Why? I understand your personal affinity for the Uighurs, but why should the rest of the world concern itself? Let the Chinese govern their own affairs, and if the Uighurs should either win independence or be made extinct, so be it.
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So do you think that all humanitarian causes should be abandoned, since practically all of them have no relevance to you, personally?
 
There is an entire "the future is with China" crowd here in Australia.

When has the US told Australian film festivals what they can or can not show?

Our future is with China, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
 
10,000 my ass, this guy is obviously lying.
 
As for the Uighurs, if they want Western support they need to drop Islam and adopt secular democracy and a healthy, fashionable fear of global warming, throw in the Wiggles too for good measure.
 
Orius said:
So do you think that all humanitarian causes should be abandoned, since practically all of them have no relevance to you, personally?
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Not all of them, but certainly the ones that involve attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of major world powers. I certainly do not agree with this notion that because genocide is occurring, we have a moral obligation to stop it-- as if either the continued existence of every culture on Earth is necessary, or that we have some nebulous moral obligation to people we have little or no interaction with.
 
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JW Frogen said:
As for the Uighurs, if they want Western support they need to drop Islam and adopt secular democracy and a healthy, fashionable fear of global warming, throw in the Wiggles too for good measure.
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Drop Islam + adopt secular democracy? Do you even have a clue as to where in the world we are talking about?
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Not all of them, but certainly the ones that involve attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of major world powers. I certainly do not agree with this notion that because genocide is occurring, we have a moral obligation to stop it-- as if either the continued existence of every culture on Earth is necessary, or that we have some nebulous moral obligation to people we have little or no interaction with.
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By that definition, you'd be against stopping what happened in Kosovo, or even the Holocausts in Germany, Cambodia, etc. That's sick, and pathetic.

The UN has an anti-genocide policy which your country signed in good faith.
 
Orius said:
By that definition, you'd be against stopping what happened in Kosovo, or even the Holocausts in Germany, Cambodia, etc. That's sick, and pathetic.

The UN has an anti-genocide policy which your country signed in good faith.
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Well basically you can guess the "morals" of these people, if the Uighur were white + Christian they would be all for it. They would stop the Holocaust, only because they need the Jews in Israel to bring about the end of the world, then all the Jews will die a horrible death of course.

Isn't one of life's great ironies this simple equation: Religion does NOT equal morality.
 
If the ChiComs want to bump off some of their own, then let them.
 
Orius said:
By that definition, you'd be against stopping what happened in Kosovo, or even the Holocausts in Germany, Cambodia, etc.
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Yes, that pretty much covers it.

We were at war with Germany for legitimate reasons and, frankly, would never have gotten involved in the war strictly for the sake of preventing the Holocaust. However, once we discovered the extent of the Nazi atrocities, it made for good political and military propaganda.

Orius said:
That's sick, and pathetic.
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Meh.

Orius said:
The UN has an anti-genocide policy which your country signed in good faith.
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And I will support my country doing what is required by the terms of that policy, as soon as I see even a handful of the other signatories taking steps to enforce it. Until then, that "policy", like most UN "actions", isn't even worth the paper it's written on. Creating the United Nations was a mistake, and our continued participation in its nonsense is an even bigger mistake.
 
Well, what can I say to that? You are indeed selfish, but at least you admit it.
 
Apocalypse said:
10,000 my ass, this guy is obviously lying.
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It would hardly be beyond the realms of possibilty. It wouldnt be the first regime to abduct 10s of thousands of people. What makes you so sure?
 
Orius said:
Well, what can I say to that? You are indeed selfish, but at least you admit it.
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This type of selfishness reminds of Martin Niemöller's infamous poem:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
 
Orius said:
Well, what can I say to that? You are indeed selfish, but at least you admit it.
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I'm not selfish. I just recognize that even if I had enough compassion to care about seven billion human beings, I could never have enough power to care for them. I care about my family and my friends, and I do what I can to help them. I care about my nation, too... and I do what little I can to help them, but I can't even claim to be delaying the inevitable. I reserve my compassion for those people whose lives I can meaningfully benefit, and those people whose benefit I can meaningfully appreciate.

I am admittedly a tribalist and a nationalist, but I am not an individualist. If you want to call me "selfish" for not caring about the lives of people I've never met, never will meet, and have nothing in common with aside from our common species, then I'd argue that you are stretching the word beyond any sensible definition.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I'm not selfish. I just recognize that even if I had enough compassion to care about seven billion human beings, I could never have enough power to care for them. I care about my family and my friends, and I do what I can to help them. I care about my nation, too... and I do what little I can to help them, but I can't even claim to be delaying the inevitable. I reserve my compassion for those people whose lives I can meaningfully benefit, and those people whose benefit I can meaningfully appreciate.

I am admittedly a tribalist and a nationalist, but I am not an individualist. If you want to call me "selfish" for not caring about the lives of people I've never met, never will meet, and have nothing in common with aside from our common species, then I'd argue that you are stretching the word beyond any sensible definition.
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Nice try, but you are selfish. You seek gratification in your actions. To put it simply, and as mild as I can put it, you lack empathy. That is just a fact, whether you want to accept it or not. Which is fine I guess, something we have to accept as a society that not everyone will be as evolved. As long as there is no cure for this mental illness, we have to just learn to live with it.

But I do congrats and tip my hat to you. You do join the ranks of serial killers and NAZI death camp guards in that you all share one very simple basic component of the human brain; you lack empathy for your fellow humans. Quite a crowd there, enjoy.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I'm not selfish. I just recognize that even if I had enough compassion to care about seven billion human beings, I could never have enough power to care for them. I care about my family and my friends, and I do what I can to help them. I care about my nation, too... and I do what little I can to help them, but I can't even claim to be delaying the inevitable. I reserve my compassion for those people whose lives I can meaningfully benefit, and those people whose benefit I can meaningfully appreciate.

I am admittedly a tribalist and a nationalist, but I am not an individualist. If you want to call me "selfish" for not caring about the lives of people I've never met, never will meet, and have nothing in common with aside from our common species, then I'd argue that you are stretching the word beyond any sensible definition.
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Seems like someone needs to take some extasy and watch Horton Hears a Who.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjxEacJwGl0&feature=fvw"]YouTube - Jim Carrey - Horton Hears a Who[/ame]

:2razz:
 
sam_w said:
Nice try, but you are selfish. You seek gratification in your actions.
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And how is that any different from your own smug self-righteousness in supporting "humanitarian" programs in Africa that help prop up the dictatorial regimes that are committing the atrocities, undermine the locals' ability to develop their own economy, and allow an already starving and disease-ridden population to continue reproducing?

Why do you stick your nose in other countries' business, when even a cursory reading of history and current events will show you that it only provokes further crackdowns and leads to harsher restrictions and more deaths among the people you claim to be "supporting"?

Could it be that you do these things to soothe your bleeding liberal heart and salve your wounded conscience? To assuage your guilt that you have enjoyed the greatest prosperity of any nation in human history, while others are still enduring the greatest misery? In other words, to make yourself feel better regardless of the consequences for others?

Don't presume to lecture me about trying to make this world a better place. While you're crying over the nameless, faceless masses I'm trying to make the world a better place for the people I see every day, the people to whom I owe a profound moral debt for the world I have been privileged enough to live in.
 
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