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Thread: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

  1. #31
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I find myself having not much to add. I don't agree with you even though I respect you. I consider myself to be a realist but when I read your posts I feel it puts my level of realism to shame. I guess my problem is that I always expect more from humanity but in the end am simply disappointed.
    I simply do not see humanity as something special and distinct from the rest of the natural world. We are shaped by the same processes, abide by the same laws, and in the end we have the same goals. It only becomes complicated because we are so very, very much smarter than other animals and our capacity for rationalizing the reasons for our own actions leads us to self-deception.

    I expect people to fight like Hell to survive and improve their own lives, to love the people who love them back, and to act in their own general best interests. It's only when they fail to do those things that I am truly disappointed in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I guess the situation in China particularly angered me, having seen it with my own eyes, and I placed that cause at a level of particular importance... when really, to any outsider, it is just one more injustice in a sea of many that we have virtually no control over.
    That's the difference of being there. Chinese domestic affairs affect you, affect people you know. You have reason to care, and reason to get involved, and it is natural to expect other people to feel the same way-- especially when you know that you'd need their help in order to change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I'm left with this feeling that if humans settle for what they've always had, then they'll always get what they've always gotten. So, people's apathy means that we are just letting ourselves come full circle. Our ancestors fought for humanitarian standards, now we are just letting ourselves slip back into iron grips again. History really is a circle, isn't it?
    Yes, it really is. And I suppose that the difference between us is that instead of despairing, I take comfort in it. As long as the the wheels keep turning and as long as we are forced to struggle against our environment and each other, we will keep growing and changing. When those wheels stop, and there is lasting peace and prosperity for everyone, there is nothing left for us but stagnation and death.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I couldnt care if they where yellow or green. ... Either way, race isnt an issue here. I care because they are humans and they are facing an injustice...
    In that case you may have my apology, though I doubt you'll accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Then your a very cold, evil person. Thats what i would have said if i didnt know you as a poster on these forums. What makes you say this i do not know but its unforgivable.
    I am sorry you feel this way, but that is what I believe. It is natural for nations and cultures to conflict with each other, and in any war there are winners and losers. Whether they are slain, enslaved, or merely conquered, the losers always get the short end of the stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Not that there mass killing, gas chambers and torture camps botheres you in any measurable way.
    No, they don't, and why should they? The Holocaust was foolish and immoral and a tremendous waste of German resources, but if anything my people gained from it. I would certainly neither encourage nor condone my own people engaging in such pointless viciousness.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 08-02-09 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Do you know what these Uighurs are doing?

    They're murdering thousands of han chinese in riots. The ****ers deserve genocide right back at them. The western media is just trying to make the Chinese government look bad as usual.

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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Ethnically the Uighurs are Central Asian. They look nothing like Eastern Asians. They have light skin, brown hair, light coloured eyes, and a different bone structure.

    The Chinese are spinning the story differently, but historically, Xinjiang was not a solidified part of China. The Qing dynasty had military outposts there to control trade along the silk road, but it never had an iron grip over the region. During the later periods when the Qing dynasty was suffering from widescale rebellion, a lot of the dissidents hid in Xinjiang which resulted in the Qing sending more campaigns out there, but they weren't long lasting.

    Mostly, Xinjiang was a convergence zone for many different traders from all over the world. Even traders from ancient Rome made it all the way out there.

    If you walk into musems in Xinjiang now, they are loaded with modern party propaganda. They make it look like Xinjiang was always officially part of China, all the way back to the Tang Dynasty. While the former dynasties mostly held administration over the region (such as road construction, keeping order, and controlling border crossings), the area was completely autonomous. The same thing has happened with Tibet.

    It's sad to see what is happening there now. Xinjiang is essentially another country, and it is being invaded, colonized, and conquered by imperialists. The Uighurs originally wanted to make it Uighurstan, joining the other -stans, but the leadership mysteriously died on their way to Beijing for negotiations several decades ago. Gee, I wonder what happened.

  4. #34
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Ethnically the Uighurs are Central Asian. They look nothing like Eastern Asians. They have light skin, brown hair, light coloured eyes, and a different bone structure.
    White people in distress! Send the helicopters!
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    White people in distress! Send the helicopters!
    They're not white. They look more Persian than anything, but not quite. They're their own ethnic group.

  6. #36
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    They're not white. They look more Persian than anything, but not quite. They're their own ethnic group.
    Ohhhhh. Never mind.
    *sad face
    No helicopters then.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  7. #37
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    In that case you may have my apology, though I doubt you'll accept it.
    Theres no need to apologize in the first place, i know your intentions were not to insult and what you said wasnt offensive anyway.


    I am sorry you feel this way, but that is what I believe. It is natural for nations and cultures to conflict with each other, and in any war there are winners and losers. Whether they are slain, enslaved, or merely conquered, the losers always get the short end of the stick.
    How about helpless peoples without a nation or an army, like Uighurs and (pre 1944), the Jews.



    No, they don't, and why should they? The Holocaust was foolish and immoral and a tremendous waste of German resources, but if anything my people gained from it. I would certainly neither encourage nor condone my own people engaging in such pointless viciousness.
    You do not condone the actions of the Nazi's in World War 2, the genocide of the Jews, yet you call it immoral and vicious. Im lost for words.

    ....I thought your people where Americans.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  8. #38
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    Re: China Genocide - Uighur leader says 10,000 missing

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    How about helpless peoples without a nation or an army, like Uighurs and (pre 1944), the Jews.
    I already think that it's okay for the weak to be crushed. What is "helpless" except another way of saying "weaker than weak"? There are essentially only two ways for a nation to be deprived of its own army and state: 1) they were defeated by a superior people, or 2) it was their own damned fault in the first place. Either way, I have no objection to a stronger nation finishing the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    You do not condone the actions of the Nazi's in World War 2, the genocide of the Jews, yet you call it immoral and vicious. Im lost for words.
    I do not ascribe any value to "condemnation". It's what people do when they find something offensive, but not actually offensive enough to do anything about it. When has "condemnation" ever stopped the powerful from enforcing their will upon the weak?

    And yes, I do recognize the actions of the Nazis as immoral and vicious, at least regarding their own citizens. German Jews were, as the name suggests, German citizens-- oftentimes, from families that had been part of greater Germany for centuries. This is not to mention other victims of the Holocaust who had even stronger claims to membership of the German people. If the American government were cannibalizing the American people in such a fashion, I would not restrict my responses to mere "condemnation".

    But the actions of the German people, however horrific, did not harm my people and it is to my people that I owe my sole moral obligation.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    ....I thought your people where Americans.
    They are. It was German Jews who gave us the atomic bomb and Nazi war criminals who put us on the Moon. We owe our dominance in the second half of the 20th Century almost entirely to the monsters that you expect me to condemn-- and to the war in which their own viciousness contributed massively to their defeat at our hands.

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