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High Court draws line between discipline and physical abuse

kaya'08 said:
Really, you was just a kid. You shouldnt let something this small get to you. My dad did it to me, infact i was 14 at the time and he seriously went for me. But at the end of the day you was a child and probably friggin deserved it. Tough luck, thats how you should view it. Unless your farther really stepped over the boundaries...or rather the fine line of disciplining your child and just being sheer abusive which my father has passed before. Again just take the view that you was "a kid and probably deserved it". Its no big deal but obviously i dont know what you have been through so i cant say anything.
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You're a guy, and I know my brother doesn't feel the same way I do. We all respond differently to a similar set of facts. You're putting your own feelings on me. You don't even know me. I'm not angry at you--just pointing out your flawed logic.
 
You probably would have, your own experience has affected how you see the entire debate.
I got smacked when i deserved it
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That's the whole point, though.
I never wanted my kids to believe they "deserved" to be physically struck, for whatever reason.
I would've wanted it that much less, had they been female.
 
aps said:
You're a guy, and I know my brother doesn't feel the same way I do. We all respond differently to a similar set of facts. You're putting your own feelings on me. You don't even know me. I'm not angry at you--just pointing out your flawed logic.
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I know it was flawed and im sorry i even bothered posting it, i know we are all different. I suppose as a female things like that are engraved to you more, you are obviously more sensitive than i am towards these kinds of issues. I just wanted to help though because sometimes if those memories really do get to you just repeat the phrase "heck with it, i was just a kid" and maybe it will help it pass. Lol, as you can see, im not one to give advice.
 
Laila said:
Were they done for no reason whatsoever/
Did you as a child do anything to trigger it? Or did your father just do so out of some sort of sick pleasure?

You probably would have, your own experience has affected how you see the entire debate.
I got smacked when i deserved it
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I probably deserved some of the discipline, but being late for dinner--I got spanked like I had committed a crime. Come on. I could never see my father doing it for some sort of sick pleasure. It was about his having a terrible temper problem.

Interestingly, when I was 4 months pregnant, my twin sister and I had a verbal altercation, and she slapped me. My father was very quick to forgive her. Clearly the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Thank goodness that hasn't been passed onto me.
 
1069 said:
That's the whole point, though.
I never wanted my kids to believe they "deserved" to be physically struck, for whatever reason.
I would've wanted it that much less, had they been female.
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Why?
If they earn it by doing something horrible, why not give it to them as a form of discipline?

And why is it different for a female?
 
aps said:
My father's spanking was too harsh and too frequent, IMO. Had his discipline had been few and far in between, maybe I would feel differently.
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My father IMO balanced it well. He rarely ever spanked us kids, he used it as a last option. But we learned to never push it to that point. We learned quickly that it wasnt a place you wanted to be.

My mother on the other hand used it way to frequently. She would spank me with an electrical cord for the smallest issues. By her using this method to frequently I think it actually hampered her efforts. I felt as a child I would be whipped regardless of behavior. So if I was going to get into trouble I made sure it was worth the whipping lol.
 
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kaya'08 said:
I know it was flawed and im sorry i even bothered posting it, i know we are all different. I suppose as a female things like that are engraved to you more, you are obviously more sensitive than i am towards these kinds of issues. I just wanted to help though because sometimes if those memories really do get to you just repeat the phrase "heck with it, i was just a kid" and maybe it will help it pass. Lol, as you can see, im not one to give advice.
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I understand. I try to be a loving daughter, and I tell my father I love him on a regular basis. I think he would be heartbroken if he knew it still bothered me.
 
aps said:
Using physical behavior to discipline your child indicates a weakness in the parent, IMO. Plain and simple.
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Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Was as true then as it is now.
 
aps said:
I understand. I try to be a loving daughter, and I tell my father I love him on a regular basis. I think he would be heartbroken if he knew it still bothered me.
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Thats really cute of you that you keep it to yourself. Yes, we should all try to be the best parent and person we can (im still a teen so im not going to give parental advice).
 
Laila said:
Why?
If they earn it by doing something horrible, why not give it to them as a form of discipline?
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Because that would serve no practical purpose. It would do nothing to prepare them for the real world, a world where it is against the law for someone to physically strike you for any reason, and the only appropriate response to such assault is to call the police and have the assailant hauled off to jail.
I did not want them to internalize the idea that if someone doesn't obey you, the appropriate response is to strike them.

And why is it different for a female?
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Because adult females are more at risk of chronic physical abuse than adult males.
They are more frequently the victims of domestic violence, and seem to have less recourse, given the fact that more women than men don't work outside the home and don't have monetary resources of their own to draw on, if they need to escape a situation.
 
1069 said:
Because adult females are more at risk of chronic physical abuse than adult males.
They are more frequently the victims of domestic violence, and seem to have less recourse, given the fact that more women than men don't work outside the home and don't have monetary resources of their own to draw on, if they need to escape a situation.
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I'm not being obtuse, i am genuinely confused.
What does the domestic abuse levels got to do with whether a female child should be spanked?

Well call me old fashioned but i'd expect my children to listen and obey if i tell them to do something
 
Laila said:
I'm not being obtuse, i am genuinely confused.
What does the domestic abuse levels got to do with should a female child be spanked?

Well call me old fashioned but i'd expect my children to listen and obey if i tell them to do something
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Sleep woman jesus.
 
I want to be clear. I am not saying that spanking or other forms of physical punishment cannot reach the point of abuse. But I do not believe that physical forms of punishment are always abuse. Like everything thing else more is not better.
 
Laila said:
I'm not being obtuse, i am genuinely confused.
What does the domestic abuse levels got to do with whether a female child should be spanked?

Well call me old fashioned but i'd expect my children to listen and obey if i tell them to do something
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Children are impressionable. In childhood, we are internalizing messages that we will carry in our subconscious for the rest of our lives. They will subtly guide and influence many of the adult decisions we make.
I would not want to send any child of mine into the world with the message imprinted on his or her psyche that he/she deserves to be hit.

I feel females are more vulnerable to such harmful messages, because- although our society is more enlightened than it's ever been- there is still an undercurrent of patriarchy, which makes some people (both male and female) believe that subversive women- women who fail to submit to the will of men, or a man- deserve to be disciplined like children.

I cannot tell you how many times, when I worked in adult entertainment, I had a customer threaten me with physical harm. I was very fortunate that none of them ever followed through with these threats; I worked in some places that had a lot of security, and other places that were seedy dives where there was none.
Despite the crazy and sometimes twisted life I've led, largely by choice, I came to adulthood with a feeling of entitlement: that nobody had the right to put their hands on me if I didn't want them to.
I was raised that way, and I believe it has protected me and kept me safe.
If a man ever pushed me, ever gripped my arm, ever even fronted up on me in a menacing posture... he'd be in jail before he had the chance to continue.
I have no confusion about whether or not his behavior toward me is okay. I know it's not.
I think, in some women, there's a hesitation there. Is this okay? Did I do something wrong?
In that split second of self-doubt, like a dog sensing fear and weakness, an assailant feels entitled to move in and take control.


Again, this is just my opinion, and we're moving rather far afield from the subject of disciplining children.
 
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kaya'08 said:
Cause i go bed around this time thats why! lool
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All right, i'm off to bed in a bit.
I need to finish my Top Gear. Been watching the new series? Absolutely hilarious.

I don't like Anthony Davis tho (he's kinda ****)
 
1069 said:
Again, this is just my opinion, and we're moving rather far afield from the subject of disciplining children.
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I see and yes you are right, we are steering slightly off topic.
 
MrVicchio said:
Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Was as true then as it is now.
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Corporal punishment increases defiance in the long term, especially when excessively relied upon-- it loses its effectiveness as the child becomes acclimated to being struck. It may be useful when immediate compliance is needed, but as a long term strategy it is detrimental.

1069 said:
I never wanted my kids to believe they "deserved" to be physically struck, for whatever reason.
I would've wanted it that much less, had they been female.
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Indeed. For all their other faults, my parents raised me not to suffer anyone else to lay a hand on me-- and aside from some minor legal trouble in high school, the lesson has served me well all my life. I hope it is something that I can instill in my own children without resorting to the same methods.

1069 said:
It would do nothing to prepare them for the real world, a world where it is against the law for someone to physically strike you for any reason, and the only appropriate response to such assault is to call the police and have the assailant hauled off to jail.
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I disagree. The appropriate response to someone striking you, especially in public, is to break them. Trying to dial the police will only provoke further assault, and your assailant will be long gone by the time the police bother to respond. Take them down and break them good and hard, and not only will they never strike you again, but everyone who witnesses the incident will advise other people against engaging you.

Obviously this advice is less useful for small people, but when do the police ever respond quickly enough to matter?
 
aps said:
Using physical behavior to discipline your child indicates a weakness in the parent, IMO. Plain and simple.
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:rofl

Yea, that's easy to say when your child is a little angel, but not all parents are so lucky, I assure you.
 
aps said:
Using physical behavior to discipline your child indicates a weakness in the parent, IMO. Plain and simple.
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Most one year olds don't understand reasoned and serious arguments against touching the stove, most do understand that touching the stove gets them a slap on the wrist.

Doesn't have to hurt, just has to be a special little unpleasantness that compels the young brain to associate disapproval with certain of his actions.

No harm in it at all.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Most one year olds don't understand reasoned and serious arguments against touching the stove, most do understand that touching the stove gets them a slap on the wrist.

Doesn't have to hurt, just has to be a special little unpleasantness that compels the young brain to associate disapproval with certain of his actions.

No harm in it at all.
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This is true, but that's not really "discipline" so much as it is safety. Stopping stove-touching is fine, but slapping a one-year-old who cries in public or spills food is another thing entirely.
 
Although I don't deny myself the right to smack my kid on the hand at times, there's no way he'll receive the physical punishment I did as a kid. For a couple reasons. For one, by todays standards what my dad did would easily be considered child abuse. Maybe even by the standards of the 80s in which I grew up in. I never just got a few smacks on the butt with an open palm. I got 20 swats with a boat oar, 50 swats with a belt, at 12 years of age, my dad lifted me off the ground by the neck(with one hand) and slammed me against the wall, after I made a smart comment. I can't think of anything my kid could do, to raise that kind of anger in me. Whatever he did that would, would likely have him behind prison bars anyway.
Whether or not I ever have to spank the kid(s), will just be for immediate correction of a dangerous action that would likely harm him if I am not there the next time. As far as discipline goes, a dad big enough to give you everything can take it all away. And the crying doesn't bother me. If he's crying because he's being a *****, I'll let him cry from sunup to sundown if need be. There's no need to coddle a kid just because they are upset about not getting their way. Just the other day he wanted a car from the store we were in. He got to pick out a car, and then when we were up at the counter, he said he didn't want that car he wanted a different one. He threw the car he had on the ground, so I took it back and put it up and he got nothing. He pitched his fit, and I let him. But he never got a car.
It's a contest of wills, ladies and gentleman, and I will win.
 
1069 said:
Think: if somebody actually walked up and began striking you- an adult- in earnest, on the butt, with the intent of inflicting pain and discomfort on you, you would not call that a "spanking". It would be assault.
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And if an adult grounded you it would be false imprisonment.
If they took away your toys it would be theft.
And if wishes were fishes...

I am not sure what you think your comparison is supposed to show.

Maybe if you went abut it another way...
 
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